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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

Primarily because of the threat to our healthcare system, but also because of those with high risk of breakthrough infection and those who cannot be vaccinated. I find it a little hard to believe that anyone who has lived through this pandemic does not understand this.

Considering a lot of vaccinated people can spread the virus, the immunocomprimised are already fscked, and should stay at home.

For everyone else, there are vaccines, or if they want, they can risk it without. Give priority to vaccinated patients, and you're done.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#312
post #188
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American). If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow. Unless the delta variant is less dangerous or treatments have improved tremendously. So, the options are 1)Stop indoor dining 2)Accept the public health implications or 3) Require…

> The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American). Yes, they are. In NYC, 73% of adults over 65 are fully vaccinated, and 77% have had at least one dose: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.p... You're cherry-picking regions of low vaccination, but ignoring the overall metrics.

It's the local demographics that matter. I live in Brooklyn. I don't care what the vaccination rate is in the entire US, or NY state, and I'm hardly ever in Manhattan. I don't dine indoors because the vaccination rate in my neighborhood is 39%. And, while I'm probably not going to the hospital knowing that I might put one of my unvaccinated neighbors in there matters to me.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…

> Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). Only available to those who got vaccinated in New York. And given that the NYC border is all of a couple hundred yards from New Jersey and 10 miles from Connecticut, there are tons of people who either live in the city and got vaccinated elsewhere, or else who live elsewhere but are…

This is about a restriction NY is imposing on New Yorkers. The city and state I'm sure would welcome cooperation with other nearby states in developing a tri state area valid digital vaccine card.

But this isn't about other cities and states so this isn't relevant. States, just like countries, are allowed to impose their own laws so long as they don't encroach on rights and laws from the federal government.

Comity is a legal standard that neighboring states can choose to embrace.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#314
post #225

In 2000, WHO declared measles "eradicated" in the United States [1]. Of course, that's no longer the case thanks to those who have decided their feelings and watching an unverified Youtube video trumps science. Requiring vaccination is not new. As a matter of law in the US the issue was settled by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachussetts in 1905 [2]. Mandatory vaccination has been used to effectively eliminate…

Why people are so quick to blame to blame anti-vaxxers? The United States has millions of immigrants and visitors from other countries. Some go through official channels which require vaccinations, many do not.

According to the CDC, Measles is brought into the US by international travel:

  Measles cases in the U.S. originate from international travel. Make sure you and your loved ones are protected against measles before international travel. [0]

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/measles/plan-for-travel.html

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#315
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger Yes, you are. * while a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well, current understanding is that it does so less than for an unvaccinated person. * vaccinated people can get sick, even if there's a much lower chance * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated None of this is absolute. It's a matter of percentages, chances and wh…

> * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated They should just vaccinate them then. I don't see why it is fine for the children to be unvaccinated but not for tomp.

It’s not that it’s “fine” for children to not be vaccinated, it’s that it is literally not possible to vaccinate anyone under 12 in the US right now legally.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#316
"The program is modeled after the vaccine passport programs rolled out in France and other European countries, officials said."

Because that's working out well (also in Australia). I suppose de Blasio doesn't mind swarms of people protesting in front of Gracie Mansion, none of which will be wearing masks, mind you. And then you'll hear the same spiel about how the unvaxxed are to blame again for the Zeta variant as the local pride parade marches by in the background.

"Additionally, the mayor said the city is examining expanding the vaccine proof requirement to other indoor activities, such as shopping."

Of course they are. This is the thin end of the wedge. It always is.

"“If we do not take a strong stand and say ‘you have the right to your body, of course; but you do not have to kill other people.”"

Will they give it a rest? You have no right to force someone to take an experimental vaccine large segments of the population don't even need. And those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Even IF I grant you that you can become a transmitter of the disease to someone vulnerable (a possibility that is always with us for any disease), it is not intentional whereas what he has in mind (abortion) is.

"“We’ve got to shake people at this point and say, ‘Come on now.’ We tried voluntary. We could not have been more kind and compassionate. Free testing, everywhere you turn, incentives, friendly, warm embrace. The voluntary phase is over,” de Blasio said on MSNBC last week."

What an absurd statement. That's like saying "I've tried consent, but since you didn't agree to my request, I'm going to eschew consent and coerce you." Then it wasn't consensual to begin with!

"“Given everything we’re learning, all options are on the table,” he said Friday. “I keep saying we’re climbing the ladder in terms of more and more mandates.”

"And on Monday, the mayor hinted at the Big Apple moving toward a “reality” in which those who do not get vaccinated are barred from certain settings.

"“More and more, there’s going to be a reality where, if you’re vaccinated, a world of opportunity opens up to you. If you’re not vaccinated, there’s going to be more and more things you can’t do,” de Blasio said during his virtual press briefing, when he announced that the city will only hire vaccinated workers and advised all New Yorkers to wear masks in indoor, public settings.

"“I say that to say, go get vaccinated, so you can fully participate in the life of this city, because that’s where things are going.”

How gracious of him. Again, thin end of the wedge. Why are some people being so credulous?

It's all quite simple:

1. The vaccine is not FDA approved.

2. It is an experimental vaccine.

3. COVID is not dangerous for the vast majority of the population, especially those under the age of 30.

4. There is mixed evidence about the safety and efficacy of he vaccine as well as its relation to new variants.

5. The suppression of expert debate is, at the least, suspicious as all hell.

Taking all factors into consideration, there is NO REASON to force anyone to take it. None. Especially not those in the cohorts that aren't affected. If you're at risk (e.g., the obese), then it is up to you to make the calculation for yourself.

(Also, since this mandate will disproportionately affect black and Latino New Yorkers, wouldn't this make it systemically racist according to the standards of today? Wouldn't you be punishing them for refusing to be vaccinated? Yes, reason has long exited the scene.)

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shoes don't have systemic side effects.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1998/cpsc-nike-announce-recall-...

A small cut on the skin is systemic?

What definition of the word systemic are we using?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#318
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

I got sick like a dog for a day after my first dose, and had a pain in the arm for a week after my second dose. You can't compare injecting a pathogen in someone's body to wearing clothes.

> You can't compare injecting a pathogen in someone's body to wearing clothes.

A vaccine is not a pathogen, a pathogen is a disease-causing agent, vaccines are not causing disease, they cause an immune response to prevent future disease.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#319
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC) According to NYC.gov[1], there have been about 980k cases of COVID in a city with a population of over 8 million. About 12% of the population has had COVID. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.pag...

That's cases. There was hardly any testing during the first wave, which hit NY particularly. The numbers are likely significantly higher.

Yeah. Hardly any testing as in even with every single covid symptom you could not get a test depending on your age and prior conditions. Now, you can walk in to clinics with no wait and get a rapid test ASAP. It's very different.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#320

Everyone has to be vaccinated and we must all prove it to exist in society ( even people who had covid )? So, it isn't about herd immunity anymore? It isn't about stopping covid, but getting everyone the vaccine and forcing them to carry identification everywhere? "It’s time for people to see vaccination as necessary to living a good and full and healthy life,” de Blasio said during his daily press briefing." That's…

Delta variant necessitates a higher level of herd immunity because it's so much more transmissible.

> Everyone has to be vaccinated and we must all prove it to exist in society ( even people who had covid )? So, it isn't about herd immunity anymore? It isn't about stopping covid, but getting everyone the vaccine and forcing them to carry identification everywhere?

No, it's very obviously about stopping covid. Don't be obtuse.

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