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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#171

Post by afavour »

timr wrote: post #154
afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this…

> the most fearful 5% of people can force it upon their children and stop holding the rest of the world hostage

To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. I'm not going to defend that policy for a second as I don't think it's a good idea either, but it's what we're dealing with day in, day out. We're not hysterical fearmongers.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#172

Post by bingidingi »

rPlayer6554 wrote: post #67
eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .

Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

MRNA vaccines are not new, but the efficacy is. There are drugs on the market right now with much less r&d behind them. The main problem with the covid vaccines are political machinations.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#173

Post by dont__panic »

corey_moncure wrote: post #125
mthoms wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

My body, my choice only applies when we're talking about terminating the lives of unborn children, right?

Do unborn children occasionally pop out of women's bodies, enter other people's bodies, and reproduce uncontrollably to a point where they stop those other people from breathing?

If so, we can apply the same logic to coronavirus and pregnancy. If not, you're just drawing a false parallel.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#174

Post by xboxnolifes »

tracedddd wrote: post #57
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

The first paragraph is how I feel. I'm vaccinated, but fat luck asking to see the card. I almost laughed when it was suggested to me at the vaccination site, by the administrating nurse, that I should get it laminated and put it on a lanyard.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#175

Post by cm2187 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #159
cm2187 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

> As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor health, the trade off is clearly in favour of the vaccine. But if you are 20 and in good health, I am not sure it is that obvious. The risks of complications from the virus are many orders of magnitude higher than risks of complications from the vaccine, even for people in their 20s.

Whatever the numbers are, you are balancing a minuscule risk against another minuscule risk. That's not going to be a convincing argument.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#176

Post by tastyfreeze »

gadders wrote: post #50
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

This discriminates against the same parts of the population that are unable to get an ID to be able to vote. I would think a vaccine passport would need some other form of ID first so it can be tied to a particular person.

Off topic but, there is nobody that is unable to get an ID in the US if they want one.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#177

Post by minikites »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #122
minikites wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Orthodox Individualism has become a religion. Over the last 40-some years, Conservatives and Republicans have been incredibly successful at destroying the idea of government which is effective and serves the public. The result is that oppositional defiance and grievance politics are all we have left.

Over the past 40 years elected officials have done a great job of passing legislation that shows they are incompetent, corrupt, and have no ones best interested except their own and will use any excuse to increase their control over people.

>a great job of passing legislation

This is what I mean by "grievance politics". This is not true, but "feels" like it it is. If Congress has done "a great job of passing legislation", what were the legislative achievements of the Trump administration? How did that government reduce its role in our lives? How did the government "shrink" in any way, which is supposed to be the Republican promise?

Republicans/Conservatives don't think the government should provide for society in the same way that Democrats/Liberals do. It's why Republicans politicized wearing a mask and now vaccination, because it's the government doing things. More importantly, telling them to do things. It's why Republicans universally obstruct the progress of the Democrats (see Mitch McConnell not filling a Supreme Court seat) but the reverse isn't generally true. Republicans don't want to pass much of anything, and many Democrats vote for the things they do.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who is blamed for corruption and incompetence, it still serves to further the idea that government shouldn't do anything. That's not an option when there's a disease ripping though society, which is why the reaction against vaccination and masking is so strong. It's directly challenging the idea that government and society can be effective at solving a problem if we work together. The Jeffersonian ideal of a weak government presiding over a agrarian society is outdated and not a meaningful model for modern society.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#178

Post by muaytimbo »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #143
ragingrobot wrote: post #6

Without getting into the whole vaccine thing... People need to start protesting with their wallets. People need to talk less and act more. I work in NYC, in an "essential" service. In the beginning myself and other workers were threatened with discipline if we did not show up for work. We were told to go straight home, and stay inside, and do as little as necessary otherwise. Now, this is easy for me, as I am single…

It's not just you. I stopped using amazon and other big corps completely when they locked us down.

I had the opposite reaction, I used amazon MORE because I didn't want to wear masks everywhere.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#179

Post by slumdev »

bob33212 wrote: post #165
cm2187 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

Shoes don't have systemic side effects.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#180

Post by asdff »

zepto wrote: post #34
q3k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't want strangers mandating injections into your body that you don't want. I mean, compulsory vaccination is a thing in many countries, and I think it's a net good for the world?

Compulsory injection with compounds that are not medically approved because they haven’t been tested to accepted standards is a good thing? For what it’s worth, I’m vaccinated and wear a mask in every public encounter until I’ve discussed the risks with whoever I am dealing with whether required to or not. However I strongly disagree with mandatory medical treatment of any kind. I could imagine a law for emergency va…

If it wasn't tested to accepted standards, it wouldn't have been delivered into my arm months ago.
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