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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#101

Post by webmobdev »

kraf wrote: post #62
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

Protest is an important form of participation in a democracy, it's not petty at all. Forcing developers to add Apple ID as a sign-in method is the petty thing. The developers have no power unless they unionize in some form which seems absolutely impossible. So it seems to me that it's all a developer can really do to make a statement and I think it's brave.

Yes. It is important that more developers stand up to this kind of bullying. Apple needs to respect developers more and, if it wants them to integrate Apple services they should instead offer incentives rather than threats to them. As both a developer and an Apple user, I don't care about Apple ID and so why would I wish to waste my precious time adding features I am not interested in? (I use Apple products but I never use Apple ID anywhere because I believe it weakens my privacy - why would I want to share more personal data with Apple, a company that was part of PRISM and used to sell user data to the government?)

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#102

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #85
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else was complaining about Apple rejecting their app, over the Sign In With Apple feature. They cast it as “kafkaesque.” They showed a screengrab of their app, and they had altered the design of the button, by filling it with gray (I agree that Apple’s choices are fugly ). The writer couldn’t understand why Apple kept rejecting their app, and Apple’s rejection reason was not helpful at all (we often need to r…

The rejection reason was that the option did not exist . It was the very first option. Calling that Kafkaesque is fine, and there is no reason for you to act so smug.

> there is no reason for you to act so smug.

I'm not smug. I'm battle-scarred. I'll lay odds that I've had a lot more rejections than you have, and probably gotten a lot more pissed off at Apple.

Being an experienced Apple developer (since 1986), means that I have been incandescent with rage at Apple -many times. All of us have. Apple can be a real pain to work with.

I still develop for Apple, but I am not a "fanboi."

BTW: The rejection reason says that, because it's canned. It covers a lot of areas. I have received many such vaguely-worded rejections, and had to figure out why they bounced the app. In a couple of cases, I have been able to get people on the horn (PROTIP: Don't be calling them "smug," and be polite, even though you want to throttle them), where they have explained the issue.

[EDIT]: Also, branding is something that a lot of geeks don't understand, but it is very important (and valuable). Many of the seemingly insane moves by Apple are because they are building and/or protecting their brand. That "smugness" is actually a deliberate part of their brand. I don't think that it's a good idea for their fans to reflect it.

In terms of branding, a corrupted branding element is exactly the same as no branding element (except it's legally actionable).

Speaking of which, did anyone see this week's John Oliver show? I get the feeling that HBO is a bit peeved with Disney.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#103

Post by pjerem »

wokwokwok wrote: post #50
pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

You’ve got to be kidding. Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? You may as well argue not signup to anything using gmail because, heck, google might go out of business. There is no benefit to users in giving your “real” details to service providers; the benefit is entirely on their side. You can argue that Apple is harming the opportunities for 3rd party developers, sure, taking advantage of them…

> You may as well argue not signup to anything using gmail because, heck, google might go out of business.

I personally avoid to do it, but that's not the point.

Every other third party allows account recovery by mail : if you want to stop using FB or Google's SSO, you can ask the website to send you a mail to prove the account ownership.

If Apple's SSO stopped working (because Apple stopped it, banned you, because you dont have Apple devices anymore so you are locked out of their proprietary 2FA), none of those websites could send you a recovery email.

> That is pure BS.

I don't feel like I've been insulting, so please don't be either.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#104

Post by collaborative »

drclau wrote: post #89
danpalmer wrote: post #63

Similar to how in-app purchase/subscription fees of 30% just _does not work_ for certain kinds of business with certain kinds of margin, Sign in with Apple has limitations far beyond other social sign-in systems that mean it is a complete non-starter for certain businesses. Like us. We have Facebook sign in (appropriate for our market), but couldn't integrate Sign in with Apple because the email private relay limits…

But you can still ask the user to provide the email address (and I think I've seen this already in some apps), even if the user signs in with Apple w/ hidden email, right? Since you say you are already asking for permission to share the email address, why would this be a problem? You now have to ask for the email and the permission to share it. A negative answer from the user would mean you are not allowed to share i…

That wouldn't fly past App Review

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#105

Post by zapzupnz »

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #90
dandellion wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when Apple stops being on fire, and you are trapped in their ecosystem and can't get out? I won't argue that Apple makes the nicest and most comfortable golden cuffs, but in the end they're still chains.

> What happens when Apple stops being on fire, and you are trapped in their ecosystem and can't get out? I won't argue that Apple makes the nicest and most comfortable golden cuffs, but in the end they're still chains. What are the options in the smartphone landscape? Please elaborate in a way that my elderly mother could use without 24h tech support from family members. Android? And have instead of golden handcuffs…

> For anyone suggesting giving a de-googled lineage phone to anybody who isn’t a technologist or doesn’t have days and days to spend tweaking a poorly-supported-outside-certain-jurisdictions device, just, please, don't.

ftfy. I get a bit fed up with seeing these things promoted. I’m from New Zealand, not the US or Europe. Where do I get one? Who fixes it when it buggers up? Why does it cost so dang much? Why is it such a slow piece of crap compared to my iPhone 11? etc.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#106

Post by zapzupnz »

sylens wrote: post #93
microtonal wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they trashed themselves. Microsoft was late to the party, but Windows Phone 7 was genuinely innovative and good. Unfortunately, when WP7 started to get some traction, they reset the entire ecosystem with Windows Phone 8, which could not be installed on existing Windows Phone devices. And Windows Phone 8 applications could not be installed on Windows Phone 7.

That is still one of the most mind boggling decisions I've seen. You launch a new smartphone platform to compete with two rivals that already have a head start, and then you intentionally wipe away all your progress so you can start even further behind again. Any interest in it evaporated overnight

It isn’t that mind-boggling to me, it’s Microsoft’s way.

Release a phone platform. Then another, incompatible phone platform that looks and behaves practically identically.

Reminds me of Windows 11. Three different kinds of control panel, two different kinds of context menu, infinite different kinds of window frame.

MS competes with itself!

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#107

Post by Nextgrid »

pjerem wrote: post #42
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app. I agree. I only create accounts for things reluctantly. Because 1. Why do you want my email address, or DOB, or whatever else? I don't want your marketing, and 2. I can't be bothered, I downloaded your app because I have something I want to get done.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Apple's SSO may not be eternal but it's also very unlikely to disappear overnight. If it is indeed going to be phased out you will have advance notice of this and a transition period.

I agree that in a perfect world you'd provide your real email address and solve this problem. But developers and companies have repeatedly proven themselves to not be trustworthy and the majority will misuse any contact details for spam which users do not want. In fact there wouldn't be a business case (nor appeal to end-users) for Sign in with Apple if this wasn't a real problem.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#108

Post by gowld »

oriolid wrote: post #70
wokwokwok wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve got to be kidding. Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? You may as well argue not signup to anything using gmail because, heck, google might go out of business. There is no benefit to users in giving your “real” details to service providers; the benefit is entirely on their side. You can argue that Apple is harming the opportunities for 3rd party developers, sure, taking advantage of them…

> Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? There might be a day when Apple is not _my_ cell phone platform. Even now I have an Android phone and iPad and I prefer to have access to same services from both.

No Apple cell phone required.

https://firebase.google.com/docs/auth/android/apple

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#109

Post by zapzupnz »

salimmahboubi wrote: post #20

While other comments see this as petty. I see it as justified, big tech knows no limit. Independent app developers are making less and less

Nah, the message itself could be justified, the messaging isn’t. Especially the hostility the writer has decided to show to their users.

I don’t care how upset you are with Fruit Co., you don’t take it out on Fruit Co.’s users. Who does one think one is, Epic?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#110

Post by Nextgrid »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #100
martimarkov wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sign In with Apple allows you to share your email so you are incorrect. If I decide to hide my email and be locked out - my choice. Developers and companies are greedy for data. Why do we have the expectation that emails should be shared? I constantly say don’t send me marketing and some services send. On my part I report them as spam every time so that algos start blocking them as they are breaking our contract and…

I was under the impression that the Apple email that you get is not a real email address with an inbox? Is it? How can you verify a user the real owner of the email? If they are locked out of the oauth account, presumably they can't check their inbox. edit: Oh, do you mean you ask for an email address after they already flow through the oauth process - because that's the worst of all :)

The Apple-provided e-mail address forwards to their real email, so you can still use it for e-mail verification and communications. It just means the user can deactivate the alias at any time and stop further spam.
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