Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#221

Post by will4274 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #76

classified wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.

The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

> Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

Would you be referring to the most-discussed conflict of all time? It's always funny to me when I hear on Reddit that "nobody talks" about Israeli war crimes. We're talking about it right now. Go look at Wikipedia's page of active conflicts - how many of them do you hear about the war crimes being committed? Coverage of Israeli war crimes is disproportionately *large* compared to other conflicts, not disproportionately small.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#222

Post by matmatmatmat » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #84

noduerme wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, Israel was the first country to require a vaccine passport to go to the gym. However they simply made it so difficult to avoid vaccination that everyone did it. I'm pretty sure the Israeli government is not in the business of sterilizing Jews, so, I would say it's probably safe. Take the vaccine and get the passport and go out. It's a benefit of living in a first world country.

Everyone did it? According to the NYTimes 64% of Israeli’s have had one shot, while many countries like Canada are 72%. Israel seems behind?

> canada is over 81% of the eligible

Cries in American.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#223

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

seoaeu wrote: post #208

ashtonkem wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that most people concerned about military aid to Israel are likewise not a huge fan of US wars either. It's just that this thread is about Israel, so of course that is the subject that is discussed.

I've read plenty of threads here talking about the US. Very few of them pivot into discussion about military spending. Certainly not 100x or 1000x the number about Israel that pivot into military aid

That has not been my experience. Frankly, I think it’s just that Israel is a more polarizing issue, so it gets more discussion. Reducing our military adventurism has a much broader base of support among non-elites.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#224

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #206

raxxorrax wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would feel pretty stupid to criticise Israel when it comes out that my own government ordered their software. They supposedly didn't buy it, but it was on the table for negotiation.

Why? Were you party to that decision of your government?

I live in a democracy so I am partially responsible for anything my government does. Even and especially when it does something I don't like.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#225

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #216

raxxorrax wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would feel pretty stupid to criticise Israel when it comes out that my own government ordered their software. They supposedly didn't buy it, but it was on the table for negotiation.

If you feel stupid saying something that indirectly criticises your government, democracy shall soon fall.

No. I will criticize such decision but Israel is the wrong address in this case.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#226

Post by bashinator » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

pulse7 wrote: post #116

jessaustin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Isn't "Caucasian" a specific ethnicity of the region between eastern Europe and western Asia?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#227

Post by yyyk » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #160

pasabagi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic goal of US foreign policy has been to maintain a network of US allies and partners around the world, who can be relied upon to protect US strategic interests, like access through the strait of Hormuz. Nations like Qatar or SA are fine, but ultimately they are dictatorships that occasionally do stuff like chop up journalists, so you don't invest that much into them. The US had a very close strategic partners…

Wow! How do you lump in Qatar with Saudi Arabia? Please point us to one time where Qatar did something last heinous as Saudi thugs chopping up a Saudi journalist at the behest of the crown prince.

>Please point us to one time where Qatar did something last heinous as Saudi

Their treatment of "guest workers" (de facto almost slaves) is significantly worse than Saudi killing a single person.

Not only due to numbers affected (the Guardian counted 6,500 deaths). It's that, we expect repressive regimes to kill their opponents but when their acts are turned against truly helpless and unrelated people it's even worse.

https://www.traffickingmatters.com/the-2022-world-cup-forced...

https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slav...

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#228

Post by tremon » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

pelorat wrote: post #192

zd123 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you got a citation that Hamas is on a religious mission to "kill all non-muslims". From what I have read and understood, it's primary focus is to resist the Zionists which repeatedly encroach on Palestinian land. Imo, making a comparison to ISIS is a tad bit lazy given the historical buildup to the problems in Israel. Just because a bunch of guys have big beards and shout in Arabic doesn't really make them equiv…

The goal of Islam is 100% conversion of humanity, and death for those who resists. That's literally why it was invented 1500 years ag; World peace when everyone's a Muslim. The central idea behind the faith.

As was the military goal of the Roman empire 1000 years before that. There's a reason pacificare is alternately translated as "to pacify" and "to subdue", the Romans didn't make that distinction either.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#229

Post by yyyk » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

stevenjohns wrote: post #64

pasabagi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm, I think at the end of the day, Israel is probably the only reliable strategic partner in a resource-rich region full of basketcases. At worst, they'll have to tone it down a bit. If the US ceases to back them, they can always find a new backer.

That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist. Let's bomb all of Israel's infrastructure, arm various militias in the country and put economic sanctions on them for 20 years that limits the country to a grain-for-food programme and you'll quickly see Israel join in as a regional "basketcase."

> That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist.

Now, here's a true, actual, case of using accusations of racism to avoid criticism. The post you responded to said nothing about guilt.

You could (absurdly) blame the West entirely for the region's state - but most ME countries are still basketcases regardless of who's fault it is (and plenty of it obviously goes to the locals, e.g. Lebanon being a great example of a country mostly ruined by local and regional actors).

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#230

Post by raincom » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

pulse7 wrote: post #116

jessaustin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

The point you bring up is an example of "fallacy of equivocation".

Yes, words are polysemic. In this case, 'anti-semetic' is seen as "anti-jewish". That's one sense of 'anti-semetic'. You can also add another sense of that word: "against speakers of Semetic language or people". This sense is not used when people use 'anti-semetic'.

In Europe, there has been centuries of discussion about jews: it was called "the Jewish question". Anyway, this anti-semitism started as a product of religious rivalry (which religion is True? Christianity or Judaism). Then extra features were added, etc.