Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Framework Laptop is now shipping

frame.work

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

741–750 of 785 posts

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#741

Post by vimacs2 »

least wrote: post #657
goodpoint wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The free market is allowing a company like this one to exist The "free market" is controlled by a very small set of conglomerates. They get caught red handed deploying anticompetitive strategies every other week.

Yet this product is still coming to market despite that.

Which doesn't really disprove anything. Nobody is arguing that there are armed gunman that target any company that dares deviate from the chosen path of planned obsalescence. The argument though is that the market is overwhelmingly controlled by those that do practice it and furthermore, this practice has nothing to do with serving the interests of the consumer but that of the shareholder.

The fact that there are some that have been persuaded through years of concentrated marketing that bad engineering decisions are desirable is more of an example of manufacturing consent than the "free market of ideas".

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#742

Post by busymom0 »

nrp wrote: post #605
busymom0 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is outstanding. One question - I really wish there was a way to remove the camera as well as microphone (if there's any built in). Is that possible?

We have hardware kill switches for both the camera and the microphone. You can actually also remove that module entirely if you'd like. We published a guide on how to replace the webcam (so you would just stop after the removal steps): https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Webcam+Replacement+Guide/87?...

Thanks, that's awesome! if there's an option for buying one without a webcam and mic all together to save a few bucks, that would be awesome!

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#743

Post by Aeolun »

nrp wrote: post #507
heywherelogingo wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds sensible. They're working on it but wouldn't want to have an unexpected obstacle turn into broken promises.

That is right. I’ve answered a few questions in these comments where the answer is basically: It’s technically possible, there is a plausible market need, we think it is worthwhile to do, and we’ve designed for it architecturally, but we can’t commit to a specific date because there are always implementation risks, supplier risks (especially this year), and a large number of programs we have to prioritize between as…

Haha, yeah, that is exactly the long form of what I expected it meant.

Sounds good. Thanks for the answer.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#745

Post by metaphor »

numpad0 wrote: post #722
metaphor wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see the merits of your argument based on some handwaving interpretation of "exactly the same". Merely speculating that FFC interconnect is "probably just a USB-C" says absolutely nothing of the fact that Acer's system is neither truly modular (because it's fundamentally constrained to specific I/O interface by its own case) nor externally reconfigurable by the user. Nevermind that Framework's design appears…

How easy is it going to be to source a mechanically compatible laptop logicboard and matching LCD to today’s design, at a competitive price, 3 years later from now, if it’s just a repurposed Acer parts without long term commitments? 51nb X210 system planar exists, but it also costs $800.

Why keep insisting it's Acer's this, that and the other? I'm certainly under no illusion that Framework fab'd every piecepart in its laptop design, but it's logistically of little to no relevance. If Framework controls its interface boundary spec and the market wills it, what's to stop them from contracting with any display manufacturer to produce a functional equivalent, or purchasing someone else's parts for sale in their planned marketplace dedicated to the application?

I think Framework has put together something that they believe has the potential to be profitable and I believe has the potential to be sustainable.

Nothing---especially with respect to obsolescence of consumer electronics---is without lifecycle risk to both a business and its customers. I choose to put my money where my mouth is now because I believe the problem is nevertheless worth trying to solve and the offering is good enough for my objective usecase.

Whether Framework can truly make their long term vision happen in a way that doesn't disillusion the community is obviously yet to be demonstrated. If the idea ultimately fails in the market, then such an outcome is hardly any worse than what I perceive to be an already regressive state of productivity laptops being overshadowed by consumption-centric mobile in at least the past decade, none of which ever focused on maintainability as critical design paradigm. Where I think the Framework meta truly differs is it lays a notebook form factor foundation that openly invites the hacker community to fill in at their leisure. Such a brazen "go fuck yourself" message to every other laptop vendor on the market earns my respect any day of the week.

Is it the best of all possible worlds? Probably not and there's surely room for improvement, but unlike most entitled consumers who want the future now for pennies on the dollar, that's not what I'm paying for either. I'm paying to support a sensible start towards something that the marketing and design of big companies intentionally ignore, have interim utility during a period of transitory company growth with hardware features and software (non-)options that I actually want, and hoping the rest of the market follows through with qualifying the movement's worth in the long run.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#746

Post by least »

vimacs2 wrote: post #741
least wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this product is still coming to market despite that.

Which doesn't really disprove anything. Nobody is arguing that there are armed gunman that target any company that dares deviate from the chosen path of planned obsalescence. The argument though is that the market is overwhelmingly controlled by those that do practice it and furthermore, this practice has nothing to do with serving the interests of the consumer but that of the shareholder. The fact that there are som…

It's incredibly arrogant to assume that the only reason why people might come to a different conclusion from you is that they've been manipulated into thinking that way through marketing. It's simply impossible that the indoctrination only occurred to other people and not yourself, right?

Your entire argument seems to be that "not every manufacturer's top of the line devices matches my vision for what is an ideal device, so I want to force them all to change to match that." Not everyone wants the same device as you and no, it's not just because they're all ignorant morons that've been manipulated into thinking differently from you.

Why are you so vehemently against allowing other people to make their own decisions?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#747

Post by jpetso »

nrp wrote: post #93
craftkiller wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Are you able to limit the min/max charge of the battery to reduce wear / increase longevity? For example, if I'm usually plugged into an outlet then I would want to limit my max charge to 80% or 60% since high charge levels degrade the battery faster, but I wouldn't want to disconnect the charger because then I'd be pointlessly burning through battery cycles. 2. Coreboot: whats the status on that? 3. When I violen…

1) We don't have this yet, but it is on our firmware roadmap. 2) Also on our (long term) firmware roadmap! 3) It would be extremely difficult to damage the internal USB-C ports from force on the USB-C Expansion Card. You'd destroy the USB-C Expansion Card first, which is inexpensive to replace. 4) This is a great question, and actually on our list of blog posts we want to write. I don't have the answer off-hand, but…

I love it when company representatives reply meaningfully to all questions of a thoughtful request instead of just cherry-picking the convenient ones. Thank you for setting a great example.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#748

Post by mastrsushi »

viraptor wrote: post #168
mastrsushi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the other OEMs out there that have used the same exhausted design, do you really think Apple is going to go after some start up? It has chiclet keys and a black bezel sure, but nothing about this screams carbon copied MacBook anymore than contemporary ultra book. We’re pretty much in the modern equivalent of beige boxes and CRTs. Consumer computers aren’t very interesting to begin with. This one is a laptop…

Maybe Apple will go after some startup maybe not. As a customer why would I risk not having access to replacement parts because they can't be produced/sold anymore? Having a laptop that looks like Apple design is not a great trade-off here.

I was thinking what if this startup doesn't even exist in 5 years. And what if this replacement part thing becomes done by 20 other OEMs. But I don't see how the widely copied design from the 2008 MacBook would matter.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#749

Post by Zachsa999 »

chana_masala wrote: post #190
Zachsa999 wrote: post #127

Damn once saw the swappable ports I suddenly needed a new laptop. Anyone want to buy a 1yo thinkpad?

If you're sincere - what are the specs?

Ye it's the E15 with 8gb of ram and 4500u 6 core cpu.

I think I'll hang on to it however, I don't think I could use a 13" laptop.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#750

Post by foldr »

formerly_proven wrote: post #642
foldr wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That accounts only for a very small increase in power. What are you basing this statement on?

PHY is only part of the DRAM chip, and trace length is only a part of what determines energy per bit, so increasing trace length by x % wouldn't increase overall power by x %, but a fraction of that. Thinking about it, there is a bigger problem than just energy/bit scaling; since LPDDR switches dynamically between high-speed and lower speed modes, the high speed mode is likely not used a lot. However, the low speed m…

Of course there are multiple factors at play, but that observation doesn’t justify the conclusion that any particular factor makes only a ‘very small l’ contribution. Do you have even a back-of-an-envelope calculation to support this claim? The knock-on effects of increased trace length can be quite complex.
Post reply on HN