Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 727 posts

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#431

Post by warent »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #282
rogerclark wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In therapy circles and attachment theory land, this is exactly what's supposed to happen when you receive "good enough parenting". Good enough parenting means your parents actually tried and either worked through any of their issues preventing them from giving care to their children, or didn't have those issues in the first place. So the idea goes, you end up developing a relationship based on mutual respect, love, a…

> "Lots of people are massively fucked up and still have kids anyway, either accidentally or otherwise. And then their kids are put at a massive disadvantage in life and in human relationships." This is an interesting one, and in direct contradiction to the adage: "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” My life experience agrees, tough…

I've been estranged from my family since my teens due to an unpleasant childhood and young adulthood.

Eventually, the flames of the furnace of life reaches all of us; some younger than others; some more acutely than others. In skillful hands, it can temper us to become purer, higher quality versions of ourselves. In unskilled hands, it can damage us. All of us acquire wounds, it is a part of being human, being unskilled, and being alive.

Strength is just another word for empathy, love, and kindness. Everyone is capable of that, regardless of their pain. That's what makes humanity beautiful.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#432

Post by quickthrowman »

throwaway803453 wrote: post #325
kelnos wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a friend who has gone through some bad life experiences. She once told me that "everything happens for a reason" is the kind of garbage only said by people who have never had bad things happen to them. Yes, dealing with adversity can teach us things and make us stronger. But there are limits, and adversity can also do permanent mental and emotional damage. The latter outcome is way more common than…

Repeating annoying phrases that casually dismiss suffering seem to be human nature. It likely irritated Voltaire so much he wrote the tragic novel Candide in 1759. In that book the phrase is "everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds" is thoughtlessly repeated during times of unspeakable cruelty and horror.

Candide is a critique of Leibnizian optimism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#433

Post by thomasahle »

ruined wrote: post #231
someguy321 wrote: post #82

I am seeing a lot of resentment in this thread. My best guess is that some of it is deserved and some of it isn't. Something that this thread reminded me of is the fact that several of my friends (millenial like myself) think that bringing children into this world is a bad thing to do- with global warming and other social problems making it so that this choice is just going to cause more suffering. I wasn't too surpr…

i think as we see crises accelerate, the only ones with true freedom to act and make the world they want to be in will be the nihilists. everyone else is busy playing calculus looking for solutions that fit into existing logic and political economy, when the truth is that survival and creation irreducibly exist for their own sake. bringing a child into a dying world might be the ultimate selfish act. it's also the on…

> bringing a child into a dying world might be the ultimate selfish act.

That's a pretty bleak outlook on the future of our world. Do you really think getting born today is significantly worse than being born at a random time in human history?

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#434

Post by [deleted] »

jgilias wrote: post #285

When I was around twenty my Mom used to call me every other day or so just to have a chat. One day, after she asked me how my day was, I shot back something along the lines of: "I don't have anything to tell you, really. You're calling so often that nothing new manages to happen in between the calls." So, she stopped calling. I would go home every other week as usual and everything seemed fine. It was only much later…

[deleted]

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#435

Post by sircastor »

lordnacho wrote: post #405
castlecrasher2 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine most would agree that the phrase "live through their kids" has a negative connotation and "caring about someone" does not.

Fair enough, I'm probably in minority. I don't see anything wrong with living through the kids, for me it's just one way to explore the world.

I think that's a very smart way to explore the world, but I think with the premise of "living through your kids", you're forgetting to live yourself.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#436

Post by bloopernova »

My mother never once hugged me. She told me she loved me once, when I was in hospital after a road accident almost tore my left leg off.

She used to explode with fury at seemingly random things, screaming and lashing out with a stick. My childhood was often spent just staying out of her way. Yes, I'm a very touch-averse and anxious person.

She denies these things ever happened. She wonders why I moved to the other side of the world and never visit. Nor do I stay in contact more than an email once a month.

I won't miss her when she's gone.

Parents often don't maintain a basic level of decency towards their children. The sooner we move away from the idea of children owing their parents something, the better.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#437

Post by nradov »

taddevries wrote: post #332
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Lots of people are massively fucked up and still have kids anyway, either accidentally or otherwise. And then their kids are put at a massive disadvantage in life and in human relationships." This is an interesting one, and in direct contradiction to the adage: "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” My life experience agrees, tough…

Maybe this is more accurate. "Hard times create weak men, weak men create hard times" I've never believed that adversity creates strength, at least that has not been my experience in life.

Adversity might not create strength but it certainly filters out weakness.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#438

Post by starik36 »

mike00632 wrote: post #250
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #70

This article doesn't go far enough to hold parents accountable for their actions IMHO. It's completely justified to go 'no contact' with a parent who was physically abusive, who is homophobic, etc. I bristle at the implication that parents are owed anything. My relationship with my parents is based upon mutual respect as adults. Had they not at least made an effort to reconcile, we would not be on speaking terms toda…

My thoughts exactly. The article seema to intentionally taboo homophobia (maybe dismissing it under the category of "identity") when that is one of the biggest sources of homeless youths in the US. I refuse to see parents who disown their gay kids as victims.

> one of the biggest sources of homeless youths in the US

What is your source of information on this claim?

I am reading this and don't see anything. https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/homeless-and-ru...

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#439

Post by cogman10 »

baseballdork wrote: post #384
iammisc wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In kind of a macro sense I appreciate my parents raising me, but I do not consider continued contact with them obligatory in any way, shape, or form, and certainly not at the level that my parents in particular want that relationship. This is what I can't understand. I get not wanting a relationship if your parents were abusive. But if you 'appreciate your parents raising [you]', then clearly you think your childho…

> don't you think you owe them something? Anything? IMHO, no. You don't owe your parents anything for doing the job they signed up for. I have a great relationship with my parents and had a great upbringing. It's very difficult for me to imagine cutting off contact. However, I also don't feel like I owe them a single thing and I think they'd agree with me on that.

Hmm, I have a hard time relating precisely with this.

For example, if my parents someday needed a place to stay (maybe they can't take care of themselves). I'd feel responsible for them. I definitely feel like I'd owe them that and would feel responsible for their well being.

Though, that wouldn't be unconditional. I can certainly envision a bunch of situations that would change that.

I guess what I'm saying is it's complicated to me.

Re: A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement

#440

Post by ta2157 »

robryan wrote: post #425
reader_mode wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think more people should choose not to have kids and our societies/governments should stop pushing so hard to have more due to traditional values or so economies can grow. If your retirement plan is point blank shotgun than this is sustainable. Otherwise pray for automation, depending on how old you are, it might work out.

It is a pyramid scheme though, each generation needing to be bigger than the last to support the previous generations retirement. It has to end at some point.

Each generation doesn't have to be bigger than the last. Two people create two children, those two children create two children, the grandparents die, the grandchildren create two children, etc.

That stabilizes the population (technically population goes down due to accidental deaths, diseases, etc. but you get the idea).

Post reply on HN