141–150 of 325 posts
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The sad part is that you can get called an anti-Semite (or self-hating Jew) for expressing any sort of solidarity with Palestinians. The sadder part is that actual anti-Semites then jump in and use that situation to further their agenda.
I’ve been ostracized by my family, which I think is much worse.
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Lots of countries have similar sorts of histories I think; while I'm sure what you say is part of the equation, I think it doesn't fully explain why Americans are much more likely to support Israel than people in other countries (for instance, Australia.) I think another piece of this puzzle is the popularity of Evangelical Christianity in America, particularly Christian Zionism and the belief that the state of Israe…
It's rooted in British Israelism [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
>Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, among others, have more control over our voices than we did. What's the story here? These platforms and most social media/news outlets are either owned by Jews or have deep financially vested interests from Jewish VCs (yes, including TikTok). Of course you're going to be silenced on their platforms. Anyone getting in a kerfuffle that this is a topic point that can't be brought up isn't…
You can't do this here. I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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I’d urge people not to give up caring. There’s a lot of crappy things happening in the world and it can be a lot to deal with, but just tossing your hands up isn’t the answer. I’d also argue that tax paying Americans are obligated to care. Our money is funding Israel’s crimes and we are morally culpable if we don’t resist or try to change policy.
Yes, I am aware of that and do care for justice but am afraid to talk abour it IRL to be honest. To be publically acused of antisemitism for being critical to Israel could be a real nightmare Im not ready to go through. I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish. Am I a coward? I think so but I have a family and want to hold onto my job. Here on HN I am not afraid to comment because…
You're not a coward; you're human. Here's what I tell myself: There are people who sacrificed far more for freedom than whatever I risk - anger, rejection by some, even my job and reputation. However, I only have one job and one reputation, and I'm not sacrificing them for nothing.
And regardless, taking a dramatic stand rarely accomplishes anything. Listening to others, being curious and open about their positions, and then responding thoughtfully accomplishes much more with much less risk.
> I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish.
FWIW, this is a classic line of prejudiced people: 'I'm not anti-X; some of my best friends are X.' There was even a public service commercial in the 1980s that used almost that exact line. Whatever your thoughts, I wouldn't say it. It sounds defensive, for one thing. Say something affirmative - e.g., 'Israelis have a right to peace and justice, as do Palestinians.'
If you are prejudiced (I have no idea; I'm not drawing a conclusion based on one sentence in an online post; and I am certainly nobody's judge), it's ok. We all are to various degrees - the point for me is to be aware that I am human too, that I have this human potential and to be aware of it and notice it, and also to be aware that I also have the human potential for much greater things, and I have a responsibility to embrace that and change my perspective.
As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and…
Note that the Israeli right-wing's biggest supporters in the US are Christian Evangelicals, not Jews. Most Jewish Americans vote Democrat and are liberal. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=evangelical+support+for+israel+sit...
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How do we measure this sort of amplification objectively? How do we account for context? I would say that it's exactly the opposite, that through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli. Israel has faced many boycotts, many attempts to destroy it, and generally as less than favorable in world public op…
> through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli There is absolutely no question that Israel has more support in the West. The US doesn't give billions a year in military support to the Palestinians or Arabs - except Egypt, when signed a treaty not to attack Israel. The head of the Palestinians doesn'…
At any rate, the aid the US gives to Israel has isn't the subject at hand so I'm not sure why you're raising it. We're talking about media coverage and world (not just the US) opinion. When the media does report it totally lacks any context (honestly that applies to the all coverage, whether you may view it as positive to Israel or negative). You can't simply show a rocket hitting a building or a bomb hitting a building or people getting hurt (which they are) without context. Sure, the military aid is context, the history of the region is context, the suicide bombings of the early 2000's are context, the deportation of people from their homes are context, the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza is context, the Hamas taking over Gaza by force is context, how they use their $ aid is context, the connection of the Jewish people to Israel is context. With no context (or rather with no study of the details) this is just emotional mumbo jumbo. And sure, some things are clearly wrong even out of context, and some things are clearly right, but for the most part that determination can't be made from some 140 character tweet. No context results in shallow discussions.
I stand by my opinion that Israel is portrayed more negatively and generally not enough context is given, relative to other world events, and within the specifics of the conflict. You haven't really answered my question of how you measure this, and so without measurement you are entitled to your opinion (and your use of rhetoric) and I'm entitled to mine?
Israel is not (yet) a victim here. Are the Palestinians a victim? Perhaps. Israel isn't solely to blame for that. Is Israel doing some things I don't like? Absolutely. Are Palestinians doings things I don't like? Absolutely. Is the way out of this mess to shift the blame around? I don't know about that one. This shifting of the blame is just another angle of the conflict and something the sides (sure, both sides) are doing because they don't actually want a resolution.
This story we're discussing, which isn't really any sort of objective reporting (to say the least) really supports my point IMO. I definitely support the right of all sides to be heard though, and here we have one side being heard.
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> through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli There is absolutely no question that Israel has more support in the West. The US doesn't give billions a year in military support to the Palestinians or Arabs - except Egypt, when signed a treaty not to attack Israel. The head of the Palestinians doesn'…
How did we get to the question of monetary aid here? What about the UN? Security council? Also of note is that until 1985 financial aid was much lower, a lot of this aid is in the form of loans or requires Israel to only use it for purchases from the US. The US generally supported Israel to further their own interests, oil and the cold war. Jordan also gets >$1B from the US a year. Let's not forget that the US actual…
I don't know why you think that was the topic, but U.S. monetary aid (and voluminous other support) is hard factual evidence of opinion in the U.S.
> When the media does report it totally lacks any context ...
That's not my experience. The media I read, such as the NY Times, generally (I perceive - subjectively, sans data) provides context when it supports Israel, and omits it when it's critical of Israel. In fact, I think it's the NY Times' biggest flaw by far.
> here we have one side being heard
Israel's side isn't heard in American news media? Seriously? That's laughable. Look at the NY Times op-ed page, any day (or any day there is something in the news about Israel). And Murdoch publications Fox and the WSJ also support Israel. What major opinion source does not?
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Note that the Israeli right-wing's biggest supporters in the US are Christian Evangelicals, not Jews. Most Jewish Americans vote Democrat and are liberal. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=evangelical+support+for+israel+sit...
American democrats and liberals strongly support israel too.
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How did we get to the question of monetary aid here? What about the UN? Security council? Also of note is that until 1985 financial aid was much lower, a lot of this aid is in the form of loans or requires Israel to only use it for purchases from the US. The US generally supported Israel to further their own interests, oil and the cold war. Jordan also gets >$1B from the US a year. Let's not forget that the US actual…
> At any rate, the aid the US gives to Israel has isn't the subject at hand so I'm not sure why you're raising it. We're talking about media coverage and world (not just the US) opinion. I don't know why you think that was the topic, but U.S. monetary aid (and voluminous other support) is hard factual evidence of opinion in the U.S. > When the media does report it totally lacks any context ... That's not my experienc…
This seems to be a fairly decent article on the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Arab%E2%...
No conclusion.
This is interesting: https://www.economist.com/lexingtons-notebook/2012/02/03/ame...
"A random check carried out this week showed that there is one citation on Google News for every 50,000 Chinese or Indians, 20,000 Bangladeshis, 8,000 Pakistanis, 5,000 Russians, 3,400 Egyptians (in the midst of horrific soccer riots) or 1200 Syrians (although the regime in Damascus is doing its best to improve its rankings by steadily decreasing the number of living Syrians). But it takes only 300 Israelis for each Google News item on Israel, clear proof that the country is being singled out for disproportionate coverage."
EDIT: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/ho...