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The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

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Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#131

Post by wolverine876 »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #113
let_me_ask_this wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case Israel should follow New Zealand's example and allow all Palestinians to become citizens, with full rights, stop being an ethnostate for Jews, stop with the racism and start behaving like the progressive country they pretend to be.

Perhaps they ought to set up their constitution to have a military pledged to the maintenance of a purely secular state that will overthrow any overtly religious government, no matter the electoral margins they earned when getting installed.

> a military pledged to the maintenance of a purely secular state that will overthrow any overtly religious government

That's an idea with a very bad history and no political legitimacy: What grounds does a general have to tell their neighbors what to do? Nobody voted for them. What stops the general from arbitrarily wielding that power?

Why vest that power in the military? A civilian institution could make the decision, such as a court interpreting a constitution.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#132

Post by wolverine876 »

let_me_ask_this wrote: post #121
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they ought to set up their constitution to have a military pledged to the maintenance of a purely secular state that will overthrow any overtly religious government, no matter the electoral margins they earned when getting installed.

Or they could do what Lebanon does and have some mandatory representation from all ethnic groups in all important public institutions. There are definitely ways to make this work, if there is a true willingness to live in peace.

Lebanon doesn't seem like such an appealing model ...

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#133

Post by g8oz »

rayiner wrote: post #43
werber wrote: post #20

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and…

As an American who moved here from a Muslim country let me assure you Muslims are socialized to feel the same way about Jews. Took me a long time to see it. In high school I obviously supported Palestine and thought Israel was a settler colony (all of it, not just Gaza). Then I realized: wait why do I even care? I’m from 3,000 miles away in Bangladesh. In Bangladesh, people don’t even care about Bangladeshis being he…

The opinions of Americans in particular on this issue are very relevant. The U.S provides Israel with a diplomatic, military and financial blank check. Many of the most aggressive elements of the settler movement that makes life so difficult for Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are funded by American non-profit groups like the Central Fund of Israel. In addition some 60,000 ideologically driven American citizens are living as settlers in the West Bank.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#134

Post by esens »

slibhb wrote: post #92
Animats wrote: post #33

A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism.[1] That made it OK to censor criticism of Israel. Israel's policies got more divisive under 12 years of Netanyahu, and there's more reason to be critical of them. Those two trends are in collision. [1] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-...

> A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism I'm not sure if that's new. And while it's certainly true that you can criticize Israel without being an antisemite, it's also true that a lot of people can't seem to thread that particular needle.

The needle is intended to be incredibly hard to thread. That is the point.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#135

Post by wolverine876 »

YZF wrote: post #125
werber wrote: post #20

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and…

How do we measure this sort of amplification objectively? How do we account for context? I would say that it's exactly the opposite, that through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli. Israel has faced many boycotts, many attempts to destroy it, and generally as less than favorable in world public op…

> through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli

There is absolutely no question that Israel has more support in the West. The US doesn't give billions a year in military support to the Palestinians or Arabs - except Egypt, when signed a treaty not to attack Israel. The head of the Palestinians doesn't give speeches to join sessions of Congress. Yes, Israel gets criticized (as does everyone), and they do a lot of shit; it's laughable to portray Israel as a victim - and an old rhetorical tactic to claim victimhood when you do something wrong and take heat for it.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#136

Post by werber »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #72
werber wrote: post #20

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and…

The sad part is that you can get called an anti-Semite (or self-hating Jew) for expressing any sort of solidarity with Palestinians. The sadder part is that actual anti-Semites then jump in and use that situation to further their agenda.

I’ve been ostracized by my family, which I think is much worse.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#137

Post by wolverine876 »

rayiner wrote: post #75
azifali wrote: post #21

As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive. Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.

As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat. This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If…

> As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke.

Comments like this one are the gears that turn to prevent peace. As with many conflicts, both sides do things that are incompatible with peace, and will not give them up because they see what the other side does. The answer is not to blame one side for reacting to the other.

It's not a novel situation at all. There are well-established, well-studied ways to build trust and peace.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#138

Post by canadianfella »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #69
rayiner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved here from a Muslim country let me assure you Muslims are socialized to feel the same way about Jews. Took me a long time to see it. In high school I obviously supported Palestine and thought Israel was a settler colony (all of it, not just Gaza). Then I realized: wait why do I even care? I’m from 3,000 miles away in Bangladesh. In Bangladesh, people don’t even care about Bangladeshis being he…

It's almost like maybe you should care and speak out about Palestine and Bengladeshis in Qatar and Rohingya and Yemenis and Uighurs.

Anyone who starts sentences with “it’s almost like” is a huge dork.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#139

Post by wolverine876 »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #111
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like maybe you should care and speak out about Palestine and Bengladeshis in Qatar and Rohingya and Yemenis and Uighurs.

There are only so many hours in a day. This should be true at the community level, but an individual passionately caring about all of those injustices at once will end up spamming social media with advocacy because there is not enough time to pick any one to do something with greater impact.

> n individual passionately caring about all of those injustices at once will end up spamming social media with advocacy because there is not enough time to pick any one to do something with greater impact

One solution, a well-established one, is to focus on universal human rights. The rising tide will lift all boats.

Also, caring does not necessarily mean action. I do have limited time, but I've heard the above used as an excuse for most of my life, and used to subscribe to it. I've learned that while people are talking about whether and how and should you care, you can just do something. It's that easy.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#140

Post by wolverine876 »

g8oz wrote: post #133
rayiner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved here from a Muslim country let me assure you Muslims are socialized to feel the same way about Jews. Took me a long time to see it. In high school I obviously supported Palestine and thought Israel was a settler colony (all of it, not just Gaza). Then I realized: wait why do I even care? I’m from 3,000 miles away in Bangladesh. In Bangladesh, people don’t even care about Bangladeshis being he…

The opinions of Americans in particular on this issue are very relevant. The U.S provides Israel with a diplomatic, military and financial blank check. Many of the most aggressive elements of the settler movement that makes life so difficult for Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are funded by American non-profit groups like the Central Fund of Israel. In addition some 60,000 ideologically driven Americ…

As I posted eleswhere, note that American Christian Evangelicals support Israel's right-wing policies much more strongly than American Jews, who are mostly liberal and Democrats.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=evangelical+support+for+israel+sit...

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