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New network of European sleeper trains planned

theguardian.com

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Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#41

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

nivenkos wrote: post #2

I'm sure it'll be at least 10x the cost of flights. Train travel is just too expensive.

Realistically from what I've seen in Sweden, this isn't necessarily true. I'm sure it depends where you are going. I will be taking the night train this summer to go into Lapland from Copenhagen area and the round trip cost for my ticket was about $235 USD which includes a transfer in Stockholm. Similar plane tickets were priced roughly the same with long layover in Stockholm.

I suspect it will not be possible for the night train to ever beat a short haul point to point on a Ryanair bike seat halfway across Europe between two major cities. But for anything more remote the night train will probably be quite competitive. After all, the infrastructure already exists for the most part.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#42

Post by exoque »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #27
ploika wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-speed rail can absolutely compete with short-haul flights between (some) European cities.

Yes, but that's beside the point. People take the train in the same situations when they drive a car, and travel time isn't always the most important criterion.

And some people take the train instead of a plane. And I did even in the US.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#43

Post by xroche »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #39
globular-toast wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the cost to your children? Air travel is just too cheap.

If the problem with air travel is emissions then we ought to work on alternative fuels. That's the positive thing to do. There is too much finger pointing, though. Globally, air travel accounts for only a small proportion of emissions, which means it gets a disproportionate amount of attention at the expense of more important things.

> If the problem with air travel is emissions then we ought to work on alternative fuels.

They don't exist yet.

> Globally, air travel accounts for only a small proportion of emissions

Air travel is 2% of all global emissions. This is huge for such a small sector.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#44

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #37
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's beside the point. People take the train in the same situations when they drive a car, and travel time isn't always the most important criterion.

It is the point. People in Europe very much do consider train vs. plane. I encountered this first hand in personal considerations, family vacation planning and in a policy handout in a big corporation.

Quite a few of my friends in Europe prefer not to fly for environmental reasons as well, which I don't see really discussed a lot here. Oftentimes flight is seen as a last resort mode of transportation.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#46

Post by mytailorisrich »

xroche wrote: post #43
mytailorisrich wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the problem with air travel is emissions then we ought to work on alternative fuels. That's the positive thing to do. There is too much finger pointing, though. Globally, air travel accounts for only a small proportion of emissions, which means it gets a disproportionate amount of attention at the expense of more important things.

> If the problem with air travel is emissions then we ought to work on alternative fuels. They don't exist yet. > Globally, air travel accounts for only a small proportion of emissions Air travel is 2% of all global emissions. This is huge for such a small sector.

They don't exist yet... Hence perhaps working on it and investing much more into R&D would be useful.

2% of global emissions is close to negligible. Certainly this does not warrant the constant media coverage against air travel on environmental grounds. This is the usual fluff while the real, hard problems are not discussed. Politics instead of pragmatism.

It's really important to go a such important problems in a pragmatic and systematic way, rather than following into PR and political games.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#47

Post by secondraft »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #5

Some information to put into perspective the articles which are now regularly published about the revival of sleeper trains. First, if you look at Europe as a whole, you will see that sleeper trains were never really dead. There are plenty of them in Germany and Eastern Europe. Often they go from large cities to holiday destinations and therefore are mainly used by people travelling for leisure. The novelty of these…

> Track capacity at night is often severly limited by maintenance work

Makes one wonder what it would do to the economics of train transportation if maintenance work was required to be carried out during daytime and passenger transportation was optimised for comfortable sleeper trains.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#48

Post by toomanybeersies »

nivenkos wrote: post #2

I'm sure it'll be at least 10x the cost of flights. Train travel is just too expensive.

That's a bit of a false comparison though.

Alongside your flight, you also need to pay for a taxis/Ubers/trains to and from the airport on each side, and a night in a hotel.

That can easily add an extra 300 Euro to your trip (one way).

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#49

Post by izacus »

emteycz wrote: post #35
ginko wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's France for you. The ÖBB Nightjet network is a lot less centralized: https://www.nightjet.com/dam/jcr:6a8041cb-0131-4ad3-84fd-251...

ÖBB trains (even the ones reaching Czechia under Czech Railways brand) are super-good experience.

Yep, can confirm, using the Nightjet was surprisingly comfortable.

The biggest issue is that they tend to be booked up weeks in advance so getting a slot in private compartment is pretty hard.

Re: New network of European sleeper trains planned

#50

Post by ginko »

streamofdigits wrote: post #45

For measurable environmental impact the network should at least support the annual migration of Homo Europeanus Nordicus to the Mediterranean sea.

That would be great. Hopefully the new tunnel[1] linking Zealand and North Germany should make that possible. A direct connection from Oslo to Hamburg would open up so many good train connections. Here's hoping DB doesn't screw up the connection like they did with the Gotthard tunnel.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link

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