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Software is eating the car

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Re: Software is eating the car

#231

Post by JulianMorrison »

iso1210 wrote: post #178
yurishimo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like something that will never come to the USA unfortunately. All new cars are required to have backup cameras as a standard safety feature, so at that point, the car company will ship the whole CarOS anyway.

I've driven rentals in Europe with reversing cameras, in fact my current car had it as an option (I didn't bother). They still had physical controls. Sure the screen is a touch screen too (so when the phone rings you can press green or red on the screen), but the button to select radio, or bluetooth, or whatever is physical, the volume (and off key) is physical, the radio selection is physical (both centre console an…

Physical controls are vastly more useful - when the control you want available can be planned ahead of time. You get touch feedback when you're operating it, of where it is and what state it's in. You don't have to look. Missing it with your finger is obvious.

Glass controls are optimal for precisely only one scenario, and that is when you don't know ahead of time what will need to be on the screen. That's why smartphones use them.

Re: Software is eating the car

#232

Post by tibbydudeza »

galangalalgol wrote: post #29
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

A few people in my neighborhood have golf carts, not sure how its legal but the police don't bother them.

My aunt moved into an old age home and there is one chap that uses a mobility scooter to drive down the road to the local convenience store.

He has to cross a rather busy road though.

Re: Software is eating the car

#233

Post by Goronmon »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #225
GuB-42 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... The problem with that dumb car is that it is missing that very convenient feature. So you want a dumb car but with feature X, because feature X is really great. But the other guy will not care about X and will think it is bloat, but Y is really important, while for someone else, it will be al…

> So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... I think an extremely small minority of people who want a "dumb" car don't want those features. I feel like you're just making up a strawman here. It's pretty clear (at least to me), that the people who want a dumb car are talking about things integrating with your phone or being displayed o…

I feel like you're just making up a strawman here. It's pretty clear (at least to me), that the people who want a dumb car are talking about things integrating with your phone or being displayed on a touch screen.

Personally, I really enjoy that with our new van I can listen to a podcast/music through Bluetooth and pause/resume playback through a simple touchscreen without having to fiddle with my phone directly.

Re: Software is eating the car

#234

Post by wyre »

rootusrootus wrote: post #71
bobajeff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I like the tech behind Tesla but am turned off by. 1) The large, distracting screen in the front of the car. 2) The subscription model of the car's firmware. If electric cars ever become widespread I hope I can find a used one engineered without that stuff. Otherwise I may have to stop buying cars.

> If electric cars ever become widespread Exclude Tesla and most all EVs on the road today are just normal cars that happen to be electric.

Why is special about Tesla that makes them not a “normal” car that happens to be electric?

Re: Software is eating the car

#235

Post by abawany »

_ea1k wrote: post #195
galangalalgol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda would make a great EV, but that is sadly not on their roadmap for the foreseeable future. I have been told this is probably an influence from Toyota's large share ownership, not wanting competition in that space.

I feel like in the old days, Mazda would have been the one to introduce a Maverick sized truck, and they likely would have been leading the way with electric. Its too bad that the Ford partnership fell apart.

Ford has chosen to grant your wish: https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/2022/ - a real compact pickup with hybrid technology available at the base price of $20k.

Re: Software is eating the car

#236

Post by abawany »

galangalalgol wrote: post #20
MengerSponge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda doesn't get nearly enough respect for their work identifying and correcting this issue. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... Touchscreens/touch panels are shiny, futuristic, dangerous, dumb, and cheap. Manufacturers use them because they lower BOM costs, at the expense of usability and safety. Vote with your wallet folks.

Mazda would make a great EV, but that is sadly not on their roadmap for the foreseeable future. I have been told this is probably an influence from Toyota's large share ownership, not wanting competition in that space.

There is one coming apparently but the range is fairly sad: https://www.mazda.com/en/new-generation/mx-30/ .

Re: Software is eating the car

#237

Post by dylan604 »

jonplackett wrote: post #221
dylan604 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which DSLR no longer has an aperture and shutter speed knob? I know the MFT mirrorless lost most of the controls, but did the latest Canon/Nikon really do this? My DSLR is eons old, so this is just baffling to me.

I haven't used one for a while so this may have been fixed. But I've never seen a DSLR with the same type of touch manual controls as an old SLR. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and tell me where to buy one!

I have an older Canon 5Dmkii, and it has a dial for shutter speed near the shutter release and also has a dial ring for aperture control on the back. I'm pretty sure the mkiii and mkiv do as well. I know the 1D I used in the past also had the same configuration of dials.

As with anything camera related, where to buy could be B&H, Adorama, Sammy's, or your local camera shop (if they still exist in your area).

Re: Software is eating the car

#238

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

jacquesm wrote: post #181

Nothing worse than automotive software. Buggy, slow, terrible user interfaces, outright dangerous and in many ways much worse than the systems they replace or augment. The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors. Case in point: my - former - C class Mercedes that made two pretty good attempts to kill me by slamming o…

> The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors.

It's worse than that. The very best in the software industry has a reliability problem. And carmakers are certainly not among the best in the software industry.

Re: Software is eating the car

#239

Post by bluefirebrand »

pleb_nz wrote: post #229
crooked-v wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda has been actively removing touch screens in new models. The screens are still there, but the touch part is replaced with physical controls for cabin features/radio and a puck controller for other stuff.

A few manufacturers, expensive ones included, are reverting to screens and physical controls. I think there is proof your eyes spend more time off the road when using a touch screen compared to physical controls

This seems obvious, really. When you're using a touchscreen you cannot "see" with your hand the same way you can with physical analog controls.

Touchscreens force us to look at them with our eyes to use them.

Re: Software is eating the car

#240

Post by CogitoCogito »

Goronmon wrote: post #233
CogitoCogito wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... I think an extremely small minority of people who want a "dumb" car don't want those features. I feel like you're just making up a strawman here. It's pretty clear (at least to me), that the people who want a dumb car are talking about things integrating with your phone or being displayed o…

I feel like you're just making up a strawman here. It's pretty clear (at least to me), that the people who want a dumb car are talking about things integrating with your phone or being displayed on a touch screen. Personally, I really enjoy that with our new van I can listen to a podcast/music through Bluetooth and pause/resume playback through a simple touchscreen without having to fiddle with my phone directly.

> Personally, I really enjoy that with our new van I can listen to a podcast/music through Bluetooth and pause/resume playback through a simple touchscreen without having to fiddle with my phone directly.

I'm not sure what your point is. I never said that no one wants these features. Obviously there are many that do.

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