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Software is eating the car

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Software is eating the car

#21

Post by zippergz »

vannevar wrote: post #7
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.

1000% agree. I do not want a car that is a smartphone on wheels and I have no idea why so many people find this attractive.

Re: Software is eating the car

#22

Post by paganel »

mthomasmw wrote: post #6

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

I found the latest model of the Suzuki Jimny the closest to what you described, that is when it comes to new cars. Unfortunately it has been withdrawn from the European market (where I live) because it doesn’t meet environmental standards, hopes are that it will be re-introduced labeled as a “utility” vehicle.

Afaik it is selling like hot-cakes on the markets where it is still present (like Australia), maybe if enough future potential customers ask for it Suzuki will decide to also sell it on the US market.

Re: Software is eating the car

#23

Post by mulmen »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #5
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

Cars like Microsoft Word have a broad feature set because needs are broad. For those of us who want reliable, inexpensive, self service-able transportation there are fewer choices. My guess is because the majority are entranced by sexier things: smart features, driver assist, and safety features of dubious quality.

What safety features are of dubious quality? Do you have some examples?

Re: Software is eating the car

#24

Post by rightbyte »

yardie wrote: post #17
mthomasmw wrote: post #6

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

EVs are quite simply and there has been a small, but growing base of users using AC induction motors on sailboats. I imagine you're going to need a pre-OBDII car and some mechanical skills and convert it to electric drive. After that you'll have a car that has half the range of a modern EV do to weight optimization.

> pre-OBDII car

If you remove the ICE you don't need to "marry"/VIN code activate the ECUs likely. Just as long as the steering lock is mechanical.

Re: Software is eating the car

#25

Post by notJim »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

A used Chevy Spark EV may be exactly what you need: https://www.edmunds.com/used-chevrolet-spark-ev/. If you can boost budget a bit, you can probably a used Leaf or similar.

Re: Software is eating the car

#26

Post by dn3500 »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

Yes, something between a $500 bicycle and a $20,000 car. The barriers may be as much regulatory as anything else. In the US all cars must meet highway safety standards even if they will never be driven on the highway. I think it's even illegal to sell a car with a top speed of 35 mph.

There are some places, mostly retirement communities, where a lot of people get around by golf cart. They do the job and are a lot of fun.

Re: Software is eating the car

#27

Post by cmiller1 »

mthomasmw wrote: post #6

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

> Other than stockpiling cars from 2010

As a car enthusiast this sounds laughably new to me. My main vehicle rolled off the assembly line in 1991. Unfortunately it's a "hobby" and a labor of love because if you're not wealthy enough to pay for a shop to handle maintenance of your classic cars then you're spending your weekends working on them.

Re: Software is eating the car

#28

Post by paulryanrogers »

mulmen wrote: post #23
paulryanrogers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars like Microsoft Word have a broad feature set because needs are broad. For those of us who want reliable, inexpensive, self service-able transportation there are fewer choices. My guess is because the majority are entranced by sexier things: smart features, driver assist, and safety features of dubious quality.

What safety features are of dubious quality? Do you have some examples?

I was thinking of Tesla's not full "full self driving" and things like auto park.

Re: Software is eating the car

#29

Post by galangalalgol »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

A few people in my neighborhood have golf carts, not sure how its legal but the police don't bother them.
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