The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins • Hacker News Board

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#221

Post by SamBam » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

disgrunt wrote: post #132

arrosenberg wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conflict of interest because Dr. Fauci wasn't gaining anything. The agency he is head of is specifically interested in infectious disease and has a large budget for grants. $120K per year pays for a couple plate of genetic samples and tech time to run them. Maybe in China you can run a few more for that cost, I don't know. As head of that agency, it's also his job to share his professional opinion with the…

> It's not a conflict of interest because Dr. Fauci wasn't gaining anything. The agency he is head of is specifically interested in infectious disease and has a large budget for grants. $120K per year pays for a couple plate of genetic samples and tech time to run them. Maybe in China you can run a few more for that cost, I don't know. So it is not a conflict of interest because of the sum of money? Someone doesn't n…

> His measly public servant salary only paid him $417K

Oh please. The median CEO pay at a pharmaceutical company is nearly $5 million. It take all the way up to nearly $50 million per year, which someone with the incredible experience (not to mention government contacts) of Dr Fauci would be on the upper end of, and that's not too mention the tens of millions in signing bonus and retirement packages. [1]

1. https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/biotech-pharma-ceo-employ...

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#222

Post by Throwawayaerlei » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

jcrawfordor wrote: post #205

harryf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's shady to provide that funding. What I'm saying is it demonstrates conflict of interest. Last year in May 5 2020 Fauci dismissed the idea that the virus came from a lab that his own organisation was providing funds to - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronav... Whether or not anything shady was happening, the conflict of interest is clear.

Would Fauci have even known? Budget numbers say NIAID clears around $5 billion in grant funding per year and this grant was more at the $100k per year level. Another source shows that NIAID receives around 3,000 grant applications per year and that's just in two of their multiple grant types. It seems most likely to me that the grant was approved and funded by a subject-area committee without Fauci being involved at…

What's been highlighted of the FOIA released emails so far suggests he didn't know if his NIAID was funding Wuhan Institute of Virology SARS type coronavirus gain of function experiments, but he was quite concerned that might be the case. Look for the one where he tells someone to keep his cell phone on.

It's something he'd likely be concerned about, because he's been a big booster of gain of function research, and the Institute famously houses China's first BSL-4 lab, although the article claims the Bat Lady said prior to the pandemic they were only using BSL-2 and -3 labs for their coronavirus research. This assumes she'd know about all that was going on the Institute.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#223

Post by cordellwren » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #178

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.

It's been practice for centuries to initially name it after where it was first originated. Spanish flu ring a bell? But yeah Trump's racist for saying China flu.

The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain -- its origins are disputed, but it was first observed in the US.

I'm surprised you didn't get this memo by now, but Spain gained that ignominy only by being the sole country to not apply censorship regarding the topic at the time ("Land of the Free" included).

It's utter nonsensical bullshit like this that made us collectively move away from naming diseases after countries.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#224

Post by IgorPartola » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #39

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

It’s almost as if we learned new information that contradicts old information and the media is doing its job publishing articles about it. How weird.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#225

Post by fukmbas » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

Because it is a conspiracy theory...

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#226

Post by calsy » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #96

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

I don't think lab workers getting sick is really a useful data point. People get sick all the time. Could have very easily been seasonal flu or whatever. It also seems The Lancet letter doesn't actual address the question of lab leak. Only that it wasn't engineered. That was a pretty hot conspiracy theory at the time and one that remains far fetched. They didn't positively say it couldn't be a naturally occurring vir…

It's so far fetched to think a lab with known safety issues could be responsible for leaking a virus. We all know that humans are infallible and never make mistakes and accidents rarely occur in place with poor safety standards. Its just so crazy....

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#227

Post by adrr » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

fragileone wrote: post #177

adrr wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump officials are the ones who said it wasn’t a lab leak from the start. Did you read the article?

Donald Trump =/= his employees

Nominated positions means he has direct control of them. He can fire and replace them at anytime.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#228

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

fragileone wrote: post #200

henearkr wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the situation was out they did everything properly to fix it at home, and then even contributed to the science work on the virus (just not on the lab origin hypothesis, but all other work on the virus structure, illness mechanisms, potential vaccines or medications, yes). All the geopolitical tensions around China, both Koreas, and Japan, are just about losing or not losing face. Most of the time they would larg…

I'm not sure what your point is here. That the Wuhan lab shouldn't be called out for likely causing a global pandemic? It's being done in a very fair and non-aggressive manner. I don't really see what other approach could be said to take into account this stereotype more.

[deleted]

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#229

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

actuator wrote: post #215

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump's use of the term "the China virus" was clearly, absolutely, unambiguously to blame China for the virus/pandemic. By the time the variants started to emerge, the virus' biological structure and mechanism was sufficiently well understood that seeking to blame any particular locale for the emergence of a variant was seen to be pointless. About pointless as blaming China for the virus itself appeared to be at the…

I agree that Trump's use was to definitely please his supporter base and blame China. But except for some racist bigots, I really doubt calling it the China virus/flu means that someone is trying to blame Chinese people for it, just like you are arguing for variants. My point was, the same concerns people had for not using the country name on virus were applicable for variants too. If we chose one standard for the vi…

You don't see a difference between:

"the virus that killed at least 3.5M people worldwide came from "

and

"as the pandemic spread globally, and as expected for almost any virus and for coronaviruses in particular, variants of the virus emerged in , and "

?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#230

Post by Throwawayaerlei » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #217

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life." Dare we inquire how long you have lived. :) But seriously, I am not sure that the scientific community, nor all national governments, have reached a clear consensus on gain of function research. It is still a developing issue. Welcome to be corrected on that. Such research could potentially help to prevent pandemics as well as accidentally start them. T…

Gain of function research outside of hyper-secure settings is, frankly, idiotic. It’s massively more dangerous than criticality experiments because of the potential for exponential spread.

From the beginning gain of function research has been done at levels as low as BSL-2, and this article claims the Bat Lady said that all their coronavirus research prior to the pandemic was done at BSL-2 or -3 levels. The Wuhan Institute of Virology's BSL-4 lab would likely be booked up for research known to be very dangerous, and as you go up in levels it's more and more inconvenient to get anything done from the physical protections (there are also supposed to be biological ones).