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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#31

Post by dang »

The previous significant threads:

Related threads:

The media's lab leak fiasco - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27307175 - May 2021 (696 comments)

Wuhan lab staff sought hospital care before Covid-19 outbreak disclosed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27259953 - May 2021 (343 comments)

How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27184998 - May 2021 (235 comments)

More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27160898 - May 2021 (341 comments)

The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27071432 - May 2021 (537 comments)

Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26750452 - April 2021 (618 comments)

Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26540458 - March 2021 (985 comments)

The Lab Leak Hypothesis - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25640323 - Jan 2021 (229 comments)

Israeli startup claims Covid-19 likely originated in a lab, willing to bet on it - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25585833 - Dec 2020 (351 comments)

Wuhan lab did research on bat viruses, but no evidence of accidental release - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23070031 - May 2020 (76 comments)

Experts disagree on whether Covid-19 could have leaked from a research lab - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22695825 - March 2020 (6 comments)

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#32

Post by JPKab »

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

Prepare to have your head explode further.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...

https://reporter.nih.gov/search/xQW6UJmWfUuOV01ntGvLwQ/proje...

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#33

Post by karaterobot »

m0llusk wrote: post #8

This is silly. The lab leak hypothesis was never off limits, it was ridiculed because it had little evidence and was based on political things are different this time thinking. Finding viral origins is never a fight, it is hard work requiring detailed research. Both SARS and MERS are good comparisons and took around three years to fully understand. The lab leak theory is popular because of politics and ignoring the d…

> The lab leak hypothesis was never off limits, it was ridiculed because it had little evidence and was based on political things are different this time thinking.

It was ridiculed because a Republican Senator popularized it, not because of evidence.

The way you know it had nothing to do with the evidence or lack thereof is that people who respond based on evidence don't usually respond with ridicule, and people who respond based on tribal affiliation usually do.

There were definitely some people saying "this is possible, but on balance unlikely given what we know today", but for the most part words like "crackpot" and "incompetent" and even "racist" were used instead. That's not what arguing from a place of facts sounds like.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#34

Post by disgrunt »

m0llusk wrote: post #8

This is silly. The lab leak hypothesis was never off limits, it was ridiculed because it had little evidence and was based on political things are different this time thinking. Finding viral origins is never a fight, it is hard work requiring detailed research. Both SARS and MERS are good comparisons and took around three years to fully understand. The lab leak theory is popular because of politics and ignoring the d…

> If you really want justice then you need a coherent statement of the offense, there should be a fair hearing with representatives of all sides, there should be impartial review whether that be trained judges or a selected jury of peers or whatever else, and so on.

Cool. Since China is the source of this virus, can they take the lead here? I'll wait.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#36

Post by bradleyjg »

542458 wrote: post #23
tpfour wrote: post #13

Anybody who has ever worked in a wet lab, or a lab of any sort, knows that accidents happen. All the time. Things catch fire, things are dropped, labeling issues happen, anything you can think of. I worked for many years in a lab, the accidental leak hypothesis was and still is what I consider the most probable. Calculate the joint probability of everything we know about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 happening and it shou…

What makes lab leak more probable than cross species transfer, something that happens all the time?

As I understand it we haven’t identified a similar enough animal virus to be the source. China has and continues to have every incentive to find it.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#37

Post by arrosenberg »

harryf wrote: post #6
bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

It gets worse - gain of function research was banned under Obama until the ban was lifted in 2017 under Trump - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... I can’t find sources for this right now but apparently Dr Anthony Fauci played a key role in getting the ban lifted. He’s also the head of the NIAID ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci ) which (apparently) is the ultimate source for…

You are getting downvoted because it's muckraking. There is nothing shady about NIAID giving a (verrrry small for this type of research) grant to a foreign research lab, which is doing research about a topic of interest. That's how you ensure the U.S. government gets a copy of the results.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#38

Post by [deleted] »

JPKab wrote: post #26
henearkr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree totally. I'd add that, while China is ready to help and take part in the global fight against the covid, a finger-pointing shaming war against them would probably (as it already did several times) trigger the very Asian reaction of counter-fighting to not lose face, and stopping any constructive cooperation.

Sorry, but the CCP hid this from the beginning. It's not Asian culture, it's authoritarian governments always needing to appear infallible. Same as Chernobyl. They were arresting doctors in December 2019, internally, for raising the alarm. The greatest enemy of the Chinese people is the regime running their country, the one that 91 percent of them have zero say in.

[deleted]

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#39

Post by mc32 »

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so it's clear there is hypocrisy involved).

Edit: It looks like Twitter is suspending the account of the Fauci email leaker(s). So the MoT is still on it.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#40

Post by xwolfi »

rootsudo wrote: post #22

It is, the narrative last year was that if you pointed at Wuhan, or Chinese Lab Leak, you were racist/bigoted.

Depends how you point. Look I'm French, we built the lab.

In France, all the people involved in the lab construction "quit" any official functions they had before the virus. That's the legend, the doubt is quite strong.

People are just now refusing it could NOT be the lab. And are mounting into conspiracy theory etc just because not everyone rolls over the floor with their conviction.

No: the lab source is likely (suspicious communist behaviour, french handlers all disappeared, geographical proximity, thematical proximity - as in they studied these kind of virii), but not sure yet.

And I'm taking flak in my family for not jumping to the most "obvious" conclusion - probably because they live in France and I live in China hehe. I think the communists are equally able to be stupid enough to refuse any investigation, to have put military command of the lab to actually be ready to study a natural virus under military command, that they were not quite competent enough to raise the virus to that particular gain of function, and that the french handlers left their ministerial position out of precaution.

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