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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#91

Post by DudeInBasement »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #73
rootsudo wrote: post #22

It is, the narrative last year was that if you pointed at Wuhan, or Chinese Lab Leak, you were racist/bigoted.

That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.

Lol. A lab near the wet market, who studies bats and viruses. And people ignore the obvious because orange bad man said it.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#92

Post by jkhdigital »

analog31 wrote: post #64
kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

Here's what I remember from that time period. My recollection is that the wet market hypothesis fell out of favor rather quickly, but nothing else really emerged in its place. The lab leak theory was circulating, but amongst people such as rank-and-file scientists, the attitude was: We aren't going to get a straight answer about this, but we've got to defeat this virus. I don't remember dismissing the lab leak theory…

> amongst people such as rank-and-file scientists

Do you have a source? Is there some kind of periodic “rank-and-file scientist opinion survey” that provided this insight to you? Or are you just manufacturing (or repeating) a narrative to make sense of a complicated world?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#93

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

generalizations wrote: post #69
anon325235 wrote: post #35

4chan figured this out as early as March 2020: google "site:4plebs.org shi zhengli"

Nearly made the same comment myself. It feels vindicating to watch all this unfold. How many times now has 4chan been right about the virus, and the media wrong? - 4chan saw the pandemic coming in January 2020, and predicted it would be big - 4chan knew it wasn't 'just another flu' in March 2020, when the media was downplaying it - 4chan figured out the virus is transmitted via areosol, not just particulate - 4chan w…

The media showed enormous deference to the Trump administration that insisted it was not going to be big, that is was just another flu, that it wasn't transmitted via aerosol, and that it would be gone soon.

4chan isn't know for enormous deference to anyone, so the fact that "they" (collectivizing 4chan always irriates me, but whatever) got things right given the head-in-sand public attitude (*) of the administration isn't really surprising.

(*) Trump of course privately told Woodward that it was really bad.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#94

Post by lawnchair_larry »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #73
rootsudo wrote: post #22

It is, the narrative last year was that if you pointed at Wuhan, or Chinese Lab Leak, you were racist/bigoted.

That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.

Except it never seemed more credible. People were assigned their opinion that it was more credible, and accepted it uncritically. It was frankly ridiculous if you had the information about the WIV that was being discussed wherever Peter Daszak wasn’t trying to cover his own ass and ruin others careers.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#95

Post by arrosenberg »

harryf wrote: post #77
arrosenberg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting downvoted because it's muckraking. There is nothing shady about NIAID giving a (verrrry small for this type of research) grant to a foreign research lab, which is doing research about a topic of interest. That's how you ensure the U.S. government gets a copy of the results.

I'm not saying it's shady to provide that funding. What I'm saying is it demonstrates conflict of interest. Last year in May 5 2020 Fauci dismissed the idea that the virus came from a lab that his own organisation was providing funds to - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronav... Whether or not anything shady was happening, the conflict of interest is clear.

It's not a conflict of interest because Dr. Fauci wasn't gaining anything. The agency he is head of is specifically interested in infectious disease and has a large budget for grants. $120K per year pays for a couple plate of genetic samples and tech time to run them. Maybe in China you can run a few more for that cost, I don't know.

As head of that agency, it's also his job to share his professional opinion with the public. For this, his reward is a public servant's salary. Seriously, what's he getting here for his supposed "deception"?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#96

Post by tootie »

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

I don't think lab workers getting sick is really a useful data point. People get sick all the time. Could have very easily been seasonal flu or whatever.

It also seems The Lancet letter doesn't actual address the question of lab leak. Only that it wasn't engineered. That was a pretty hot conspiracy theory at the time and one that remains far fetched. They didn't positively say it couldn't be a naturally occurring virus that leaked. I don't know enough to comment on gain of function leaves any hallmarks but I'm guessing it doesn't since it tries to replicate evolution.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#97

Post by analog31 »

jkhdigital wrote: post #92
analog31 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I remember from that time period. My recollection is that the wet market hypothesis fell out of favor rather quickly, but nothing else really emerged in its place. The lab leak theory was circulating, but amongst people such as rank-and-file scientists, the attitude was: We aren't going to get a straight answer about this, but we've got to defeat this virus. I don't remember dismissing the lab leak theory…

> amongst people such as rank-and-file scientists Do you have a source? Is there some kind of periodic “rank-and-file scientist opinion survey” that provided this insight to you? Or are you just manufacturing (or repeating) a narrative to make sense of a complicated world?

Maybe there's a third option. Thanks.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#98

Post by elzbardico »

seaman1921 wrote: post #42
mmcgaha wrote: post #4

If anything good can come of this, I hope some of the folks who trusted the science begins to realize that people are behind science and people often act in their own best interest. Not that it will change much but we can at least stop yelling down and shaming skeptics.

this is terrifying.. who can we even trust then :\ Such exposed dishonesty leads to more and more people completely losing faith in everything that the scientists say and turning into anti-vaccers etc.

You trust Science, not The Science, not the Scientists. You trust the Scientific Method, and nothing else. It took mankind a lot of centuries to get free from the shackle of the gods, let us not replace the pantheon with our science man.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#99

Post by CapmCrackaWaka »

Leary wrote: post #72

Wall Street Journal's article on US Intelligence having information on the three potential sick WIV researchers was written by a reporter named Michael R. Gordon[1]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w... This is the same Michael R. Gordon who in 2002 wrote the famous NYTimes article saying US Intelligence had credible information that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction (Thousands of al…

To be clear - this guy's article didn't lead to the Iraq war. He was writing about the information that the US intelligence offices were putting out, which at this point we know was dubious. That really has nothing to do with his credibility.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#100

Post by alexanderdmitri »

Assuming a lab leak, but not judging, it's surreal to think what it would be like to be someone involved with the initial handling of Covid-19.

I can't imagine being in those shoes while this unprecedented, global event unfolded with political and economic consequences on such an insane scale ...

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