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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#781

Post by meken »

tootie wrote: post #437
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I will always prefer WFH for a critically important reason no one else seems willing to mention. I get to use my own bathroom. Sitting in a stall next to someone noisy is my daily hell. The worst is if the seat is still warm. I think may have actually avoided using a public restroom for 15 straight months.

What? The seat being warm is the best case.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#782

Post by tester756 »

drstewart wrote: post #667
bloqs wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.Interesting, the vast majority of these are not work related for me. Maybe one a year is in some way useful 2. I would contest that with sufficient quality screen share this simply so marginal it's dismissable 3. This makes several assumptions about personality and socialising and isn't always the case. Forcing people to see each other does not create social closeness. Sustaining good friendships over instant messa…

>I save 4 hours a day lost to transport being forced to listen to podcasts and have more meaningful work and play time as a result. Man, people are really starting to stretch their commute times. Actually no, I save 8 hours a day commuting! No, 16! No, 350395803 hours! Let's be 100% honest: you did not spend 4 hours a day commuting pre-WFH. You just didn't.

>Let's be 100% honest: you did not spend 4 hours a day commuting pre-WFH. You just didn't.

Just take a look at this:

10min walk to the station

5min wait for the train

1h 5min travel time

10min walk to the office

+

10min walk to the station

around 15min wait for the train

1h 5min travel time

10min walk to the home

the only thing you can argue is

>around 15min wait for the train

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#783

Post by draw_down »

midasuni wrote: post #593
xtracto wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2018/2019 discussions about open offices vs private spaces were all the rage. Bean counters (C*Os) were fast to position open offices as great promoters of interactions and teamwork. Fast forward 2 years and thankfully that conversation has moved to WFH vs office work.

Presumably bean counters will be on the side of WFH, as staff no longer need the massive subsidy of office space, and in most cases won’t charge more.

The absolute most under discussed aspect of this issue. As an employee you’re paying for their office space now... and they sell it as a benefit to YOU.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#784

Post by aikinai »

dcolkitt wrote: post #394
aikinai wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everyone here just assume that everyone’s commute is as bad as theirs? There are many people in the current working generation that avoided the soul-sucking suburban commute from the start.

> There are many people in the current working generation that avoided the soul-sucking suburban commute from the start. Very few of those people have kids. Unless you're making L8 comp, raising a few kids within bicycle commute the major tech campuses is financially unobtainable. The cost of a backyard, good schools, and safe streets is astronomical in tier one urban cores.

Is tier one only Silicon Valley? There are plenty of people raising kids with short commutes in the Seattle area; you don’t even need a FANG salary. And Seattle’s still on the high end; people can also live in places like Austin, Portland, Boulder, etc.

And that’s all just in the US. It’s even more obtainable in other countries with better urban planning.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#785

Post by jameshart »

httpsterio wrote: post #345
mFixman wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Google Employee working from home could save $200/day versus getting a fancy limousine to go to work. Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

Yeah if I made Google wages I would not want to waste an hour or more a day on commuting. Plus, you can easily make food for 10-20 dollars a day so saving by eating the company food will cost you more just by colmuting and losing your time (or potential wages).

Do you think googlers are paid by the hour?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#786

Post by FuckButtons »

dahfizz wrote: post #780
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Whenever the discussion of commuting comes up, the discussion revolves around worst case scenarios. We are software engineers! There is no reason for us to put up with a worst case or even an average case commute. If we want to go into the office, it's easy for us to move house or move job. Its not worth agonizing over a few bucks an hour, especially when going into the office has its own monetary benefits as OP ment…

Except of course if where we live is a compromise between minimizing distance to other places like our spouses place of work or our kids school.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#787

Post by wccrawford »

ulzeraj wrote: post #773

I don't want to go back. I've joined the company during the height of the pandemic. Hat to relocate. Then I've rented a very nice apartment just the other side of the street from the company building. Then the company moved to a presumably cheaper building which is on the other side of the city. And you guess it... because COVID and remote work. I've talked to my relevant managers (the ones that actually mange stuff…

Pre-covid, I was in a similar situation. My wife and I chose our house because it was close to downtown, where both our offices were.

Just prior to Covid, they decide the rent's too high there and say they're moving to an area that's supposedly central for everyone, but is a lot worse for me. (And for everyone, honestly. Traffic there was horrendous.)

Then Covid came and they dropped the plans to move, and simply closed the office.

They haven't yet decided what's happening post-Covid, but I'm worried they'll pick an awful area.

I actually do somewhat prefer working from the office... I just don't want that nasty commute. (And for me, that's anything over 15 minutes or with any amount of uncertainty.)

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#788

Post by subpixel »

amyjess wrote: post #198
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't…

> I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder.

I empathize with this but many organizations are, essentially "up or out". You are either seen as growing and rising through the ranks or as awaiting some sort of release.

I hope you are so good at what you do that you could easily find another job, but that is not a given for most people. So they feel compelled to play the games you are dismissing.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#789

Post by read_if_gay_ »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #716
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's much bigger impact to be made if they work from the top down Exactly. Germany banning plastic straws while simultaneously funding a new natural gas pipeline feels very much like they just want it to seem like things are improving.

Public consciousness seems to lack the ability to prioritize issues. Disposable plastics are a problem first and foremost because they cause proliferation of microplastics in the biosphere. This is an issue, but it's not an important issue right now. It's likely harmful to biosphere and to us in the long run - but as of today, there's no noticeable harm being done that can be tied to microplastics, which suggests any…

> Public consciousness seems to lack the ability to prioritize issues.

Things that everybody is going to notice first-hand have an outsized impact on public consciousness. When combined with democracy, this has nasty consequences.

For politicians banning plastic straws is a no-brainer: easy to ban, no real impact on anything, and everyone is going to notice it and feel like something is happening. Same for plastic grocery bags and cutlery. Do it and maybe you'll grab some of those Green votes, same play as the Energiewende.

Meanwhile if you make industry even just .1% more efficient the impact is larger by orders of magnitude but nobody is going to notice, first-hand, right now. So it's pointless when you only care about votes. Which is sadly a main feature of democracy.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#790

Post by [deleted] »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

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