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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#621

Post by Bancakes »

gnicholas wrote: post #296
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Since you're home, you're free to make whatever food you want, anytime, for the 2 hours daily commute.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#622

Post by sersi »

gfodor wrote: post #305
sersi wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. I resent the implication that I like WFH because I hate my job. I love my job, I'm good at it and I'm a bit of a workaholic by most standards (but wouldn't if I didn't genuinely love it). However, over my career, I found that I'm much more productive when wor…

If a person says "a lot of people like X because they hate Y" they are not saying that if someone likes X it implies Y. When I catch myself inverting conditional probabilities into a frame that makes me feel attacked it usually means that I've got some other thing going on that has nothing to do with what the person said.

You are right, if one reads it very charitably but in my experience "a lot of people like X because they hate Y" is very often used as a writing device to make a point and denigrate X. In this case, no, it doesn't say that all people who work from home hate their jobs but it says that the probably of people working from home hating their jobs is higher without proof to further their argument. I've seen a lot of that on both sides of the fence in the WFH.

So, when Wework's CEO says that people who work from home are the least engaged, when I read in this thread that people who don't want to work from home must not like their family (paraphrasing), I take it to mean for what it is, an insult in order to push one's favoured view and I dislike this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#623

Post by entropea »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I really like my current company and will be of the first in the office at least 3-4 times per week. I agree with your points, but also understand that it doesn't fit everyone's life.

My social interaction has pretty much always been online since a kid and most of my long term friendships and social interaction came from in-person work. I miss the people who genuinely made my day better on a consistent basis at work, and I get almost none of that remote. Being single through COVID has been hell.

I also have zero work/life separation. I enjoy the routine, the excercise, less distractions than being at home. I feel like I could absorb more and know a lot more of what was going on.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#624

Post by afinlayson »

It's funny how people who like remote worker expect everyone to commit to their lifestyle, like it's a religion. Some people will work better in the office others will work better at home. Not everyone is the same ... why haven't we figured this out yet

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#625

Post by bloqs »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

1.Interesting, the vast majority of these are not work related for me. Maybe one a year is in some way useful

2. I would contest that with sufficient quality screen share this simply so marginal it's dismissable

3. This makes several assumptions about personality and socialising and isn't always the case. Forcing people to see each other does not create social closeness. Sustaining good friendships over instant message is very much the norm. I think occasional in person meetings or, more deliberate collaborative effort if fully remote can create this just fine.

4. Distractions in the office, drive bys, noise of neighbours and even digital distraction vs a small degree of self discipline (using one monitor, phone on dnd can help too) ... I dont buy this at all.

5. See above - if you have children then that is understandable, however I would wager that correct work/play time separation is whats needed here.

6. I can claim some of my electricity cost as work expenses and the food on my commute and at work is incredibly overpriced. I typically prepare food at home. Being at home more i'm now not restricted to whatever carries well in a tupperware.

7. Arguing that a routine needs to be made for you instead of creating your own isnt a valid reason. Self discipline.

8. Discipline and routine also addresses the last point, but I will concede its easier to manage.

To outline the competitive advantage FOR working at home. In addition to the above I gain:

Custom desk, my high quality office chair vastly superior to corporate stock, custom office space, custom lighting temperature and air flow.

Control of noise levels

Total control of distractions

I save 4 hours a day lost to transport being forced to listen to podcasts and have more meaningful work and play time as a result.

I save substantial money on transport

No social guidelines, I can have what I want on the radio/TV if I wish.

I can wear more comfortable clothes and save money on laundering work clothes

I can exercise more freely and easily

I can work in line with the ebb and flow of my conciousness and not when someone else demands it - and am subatantially more productive.

My deliveries no longer go missing

My home is tidier

I dont have to use a disgusting corporate bathroom

I dont get sick anymore

My carbon footprint is close to zero

My mental health has improved substantially

I think that mostly covers it

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#626

Post by bloqs »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #594
foepys wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that not everybody here works for FAANG or similar companies.

None the less people do seem to make poor decisions when it comes to commuting.

This comment suggests you are from a generation where there was a choice

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#627

Post by entropea »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #321
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

I spend 150$+ per month on AC and heat because of the pandemic. I spent ~30$ in gas a month commuting. I could even walk if my bike didn't work. Personally I like the free AC. Once you optimize your job to be close to your home, many of the benefits of wfh disappear.

My landlord noticed electric bill going up (combined with rent) and a lightbulb moment happened when we realized we've all been at home over the winter and its 220+ hours more of heat and other appliances every month.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#628

Post by Cookingboy »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #476
radec wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad others are shocked by that $60/day on food. I would say food takes up the largest percentage of my expenses and $60 is easily 5 days worth of food for two.

Lol I spend about 5-10$ a day on food. Where do these people eat at lol

Can $5-10 a day get you food with this kind of quality and variety?

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-free-food-google-cafe...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#629

Post by tdeck »

hawthornio wrote: post #612
tdeck wrote: post #504

I never thought I'd handle WFH well. When job-hunting, I'd always ignore fully remote jobs. It sounded totally depressing and demotivating to sit at home and interact with my coworkers virtually. I also always valued the office perks. During the first few months, it felt like WFH stripped out all the non-work aspects of my job. At Google those perks were substantial, and it put the work itself in full focus. But you…

how do you measure your minutes of focused work?

I use a set of shell scripts that record when I start and stop work in a text file. The hard part is developing the habit. When I get up, switch to something non-work, or even start to daydream I stop it. Sometimes I still forget to start or stop it, so then I have to try to figure out when I started or stopped working from browser, command line, or undo history.

Lately I have been using the pomodoro method on top of this, which is probably easier to get started with since it's fewer large blocks of time.

The scripts are here FWIW, but they're written for an audience of one: https://github.com/tdeck/timing

There's also some stuff in there for various other schemes like daily goals, some notion of "debt" etc... that I used at various times to manage my motivation and pacing. I've found it works best to just plan a number of pomodoros for each task, map out my day in half hour slots, and decide when I will do them.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#630

Post by em500 »

ghaff wrote: post #379
staticassertion wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Dropbox served food I valued it at 50k, ie: in order fro a company to poach me, given they don't have food, that's 50k they'd have to make up for. While I don't spend anywhere near 4k a month on food, there were a few things to consider: a) 3 meals prepared for me saves me time and money. I love to cook but I don't have tons of time anymore and I don't have a a good kitchen. If I want to save time via delivery I…

I guess I just can't comprehend a mindset where 3 meals a day at a company is this huge win. On the occasions when I went into an office with a non-free cafeteria, I didn't even always eat lunch. ADDED: This subthread to me is such a bizarre look into a certain bubble of SV. [See also apparent disagreements with the statement that spending $60/day in restaurants is somehow abnormal.]

Some people simply don't get much value or enjoyment from a good meal at all, in that case it's probably too hard to make them understand. But assuming that you do enjoy dining at a good restaurant once in a while, can you imagine that getting essentially unlimited meal vouchers at good quality restaurants (not cafetarias or fast food joints!) can be quite valuable for a good number of people?
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