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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#331

Post by notsureaboutpg »

buzzert wrote: post #193
k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

> The majority of people just want to earn some money and do it as easily as possible. That's true, and I don't blame anyone for that. However, I don't think one should expect to enjoy all of the benefits of an extremely high performing company (i.e., RSUs of great value, high pay, prestige, etc.) if they approach work in this way. It sounds very entitled to say "I'm just here for the paycheck" but expect all of the…

No, I'm not entitled at all. I work more when I am WFH because I don't commute. I work for less when I WFH because less goes a long way in a rural area (where I'd have to commute from if you make us go to an office). I am highly productive when I'm WFH because I don't have to go 3 buildings over to another meeting and waste 15-20 minutes of completely unproductive time so you can shake my hand in person instead of waving over a zoom call.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#332

Post by aerosmile »

It's very unfortunate that the WFH experiment didn't turn out to be a 100% winner. We had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do all office work from home for the rest of our lives, and it certainly feels like that most companies didn't love it. There are obviously some exceptions, but what matters is what 90% of them will do - and right now it looks like that they will be asking for on-site presence somewhere in the range of 3-5 days. There's a massive difference between 100% WFH and 20-40% WFH: you cannot live wherever you want. I am really bummed that we as a collective society didn't come out of this thinking that 100% is the way to go.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#333

Post by lamontcg »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #321
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

I spend 150$+ per month on AC and heat because of the pandemic. I spent ~30$ in gas a month commuting. I could even walk if my bike didn't work. Personally I like the free AC. Once you optimize your job to be close to your home, many of the benefits of wfh disappear.

If you're paying rents/mortgages close to your work, those savings from AC probably disappear pretty quickly.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#334

Post by mFixman »

gnicholas wrote: post #296
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

A Google Employee working from home could save $200/day versus getting a fancy limousine to go to work.

Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#335

Post by 29athrowaway »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

My ranking is:

1) WFH

2) dedicated office

3) cubicle

4) quitting

5) open plan office

Not every employer gives you free meals, and when they do, you may not always like them and may still want to eat something else.

Commuting can many hours of your time. I have more valuable things to do with my time rather than commuting.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#336

Post by lxe »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Those are all great advantages of working at an office. Unfortunately they are inconsequential compared to advantages of working from home.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#337

Post by iab »

mdocherty wrote: post #316
amyjess wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't…

If you are on the committee you should probably speak up and say something.

I agree - not sure there will ever be this kinda leverage again in our lifetimes

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#338

Post by aerosmile »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

I promise to you that there's a job out there that would change your mind. It might be impossible to get it for a number of practical reasons, but please know that those jobs do exist. I am only sharing this to encourage you to look around.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#339

Post by mtnGoat »

rubicon33 wrote: post #251
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

Well it appears to have done a number on you but myself and many others really enjoy it and would never go back to an office. Not sure I’d assume my own experience should speak for everyone else’s. But I run a remote first team and have worked remote for decades, with great success and no mental issues.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#340

Post by whiddershins »

mFixman wrote: post #334
gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

A Google Employee working from home could save $200/day versus getting a fancy limousine to go to work. Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

> Nobody buys prepared food every day

I get what you are trying to say, but empirically false

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