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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#191

Post by slavapestov »

themacguffinman wrote: post #96
coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

Not everyone spends a significant amount of time commuting by personal car to the office. I see a lot of angst about hypothetically long 1-2hr commutes when the average commute in major tech cities is ~30 mins, and of course you can always control it by living closer to the office. Sure, not everyone is willing to make sacrifices for commute, which is one reason why it can be a competitive advantage.

How much do homes cost within a 30 minute commute radius of FAANG HQ?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#192

Post by mxcrossr »

dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

There is always some selection bias in this regard when reading the hacker news comments. If you spend time talking to people online, you’re probably a lot less interested in the social aspect of work.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#193

Post by buzzert »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

> The majority of people just want to earn some money and do it as easily as possible.

That's true, and I don't blame anyone for that. However, I don't think one should expect to enjoy all of the benefits of an extremely high performing company (i.e., RSUs of great value, high pay, prestige, etc.) if they approach work in this way.

It sounds very entitled to say "I'm just here for the paycheck" but expect all of the benefits of working at a highly productive company with none of the commitments.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#194

Post by pseudalopex »

filleduchaos wrote: post #177
coldtea wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day Of course. Especially those that hate their families (or themselves and can't spend time alone).

Not everyone is painfully asocial - and I say this as a rather asocial person myself who's only ever held remote or remote-friendly roles. I couldn't imagine wilfully remaining at a job with coworkers so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.

Preferring to spend time with friends and family is normal. It doesn't mean someone's coworkers are so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#195

Post by rufus_foreman »

hwbehrens wrote: post #80
coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

I'm obviously an outlier, but I live an 8 minute (peaceful) bike ride from work. I hate commuting, so I optimized for that for this job, and working from home last year was absolutely a net negative for me. Distracting kids, poor work-life balance, more expensive (AC, food, water, etc). I think the lesson here is, some companies can be remote-first, some companies can be in-person, and different employees will prefer…

>> I live an 8 minute (peaceful) bike ride from work

Well that's where you live now. Average worker changes jobs 12 times in a career. Is your plan to just move 12 times (and pay the costs associated with that)? Or work at the same job for much longer (and pay the costs associated with that)?

One of the benefits of living in a large metro area is the amount of job opportunities, but it you put an 8 minute circle around your residence and only look for jobs within that, that negates those benefits.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#196

Post by heavyset_go »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity.

For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting.

Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year.

The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:

> In the area with the longest average commute (New York-Newark-Jersey City), commuters are spending an average of 13 days, 2 hours, and 26 minutes driving to and from work. That means that 14 vacation days a year are barely covering the time it takes to get to work every day. So in addition to dropping the average wage from $34.71 per hour to $30.15 per hour, in order to get 14 days of hanging with their family on a beach, New York commuters must be willing to spend nearly as much time sitting in a car.

[1] https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#197

Post by Mountain_Skies »

gnulinux wrote: post #136
coldtea wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does everyone here just assume that everyone’s commute is as bad as theirs? Because statistically it would be representative. Also because even if the office is next door, you need to get dressed properly, prepare, etc., which eats at least half hour every morning.

You should get dressed properly and prepare even if you're working from home.

Our CISO made a deal with us that we'd wear collared shirts when we need to be on a video call but are free to wear whatever we want otherwise. I keep a polo shirt with the company logo in the closet of my home office for those occasions. Works well. Sometimes I wait until lunch to shower but if I have a video call in the morning, I'll be sure to shower so my hair looks presentable.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#198

Post by amyjess »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I do not care about being competitve.

I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't think of a single thing I care about less than having a competitive advantage over other people in the Game of Offices.

Being forced to spend 8 hours a day outside my home makes me actively uncomfortable. I'm autistic, partially faceblind (I used to think I can tell people's faces apart... but then a coworker will shave their head and it turns out I'm completely incapable of recognizing them... turns out I mostly just recognize hair), have difficulty looking people in the eye, and have a litany of sensory issues. Face-to-face interaction gives me zero benefit, and being able to work while wearing a rayon nightgown and rayon pajama pants means I'm actually able to focus on my work instead of focusing on how my clothes feel.

My company has a diversity and inclusion committee—I am on the diversity and inclusion committee—and there has not been a single discussion of how forcing people back to the office is actively harmful to autistic employees who can't benefit from face-to-face interaction and have sensory issues that make offices uncomfortable. It is absolutely hypocritical for companies to say they care about diversity and inclusion while shafting autistic employees like this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#199

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

ModernMech wrote: post #123
BrissyCoder wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how so many people in this thread are saying they spend more on food while working from home. How is this possible? Does it vary by country? In Australia at least it is orders of magnitude less expensive to prepare food at home purchased from a supermarket than it is to buy food whilst out an about. Or are these people working for companies that provide food or something. I just don't get it.

> Or are these people working for companies that provide food or something. It's this. Companies started offering food to keep their employees in the office longer. That people here are saying they prefer eating at work due to the cost shows it worked.

> to keep their employees in the office longer.

At the office, maybe, but definitely not working.

For dinner, the set times provide natural day boundaries with a strong incentive to wrap up by a certain time. During lunch, it may be saving some time that people wouldn't work by doing away with the need to get to and wait for a restaurant (if the company wouldn't provide any cafeteria at all; every place where I worked had one, usually paid and lunch-only though).

I believe that companies provide food because it's a relatively cheap perk providing a lot of value that simply cannot be replicated.

If I have to make my own food, I have to grocery shop, cook, and do dishes, all of this done inefficiently at small scale and out of my own time. At a buffet-style cafeteria, you just walk in, grab food, eat, drop off your dishes, done. The real value isn't the free food. It's the convenience that comes with it.

At the same time, it doesn't cost the company that much. Raw ingredients aren't that expensive, and neither is running a cafeteria if everything is prepared at scale.

Even if you ignore the cost, restaurants (including buffet style ones) can't replicate that convenience: They aren't at a place where you are anyways, and payment adds extra friction. A la carte restaurants are right out because of the wait. And even if the food actually did make people stay longer - I bet that time is made up by not having to do chores to feed yourself.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#200

Post by subsection1h »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #97
pochamago wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

Yep, random talks about random stuff, lunch together, practical jokes,... if you're a person who can make friends easily, even at work, you're missing a lot.

> random talks about random stuff, lunch together, practical jokes

Thanks for reminding me why I started working remotely 15 years ago.

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