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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#771

Post by Mindwipe »

gnicholas wrote: post #296
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

It also depends on if you commute by car or public transport.

Some of us don't really object to 90 minutes a day of quiet time where we can read tbh.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#772

Post by Mindwipe »

randomsearch wrote: post #589
ashtonkem wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commutes also cost the one thing we can't get back; time.

If you use public transport, you can regain that time. In the UK you can get a seat on most rush hour trains, and even standing up on the Tube you can read a book, listen to a podcast, do your email etc. It's also good thinking time. Driving a car yep you're absolutely right, but if you commute via car a long distance for a considerable amount of time I think you're crazy.

Yep. My commute in London is basically the only time I get to read books.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#773

Post by ulzeraj »

I don't want to go back.

I've joined the company during the height of the pandemic. Hat to relocate. Then I've rented a very nice apartment just the other side of the street from the company building.

Then the company moved to a presumably cheaper building which is on the other side of the city. And you guess it... because COVID and remote work.

I've talked to my relevant managers (the ones that actually mange stuff I do) and they don't care if I work from home. I hope non productive (HR etc) doesn't try to impose some "return to normal" bullshit. I've been stacking reputation through productivity like crazy to be able to resist it in case it happens.

I brought my dog with me. Large dogs shouldn't be left alone for more than a few hours.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#774

Post by mtberatwork »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #174
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I'd just like to add to that: 1. The daily routine and commute helps reset your brain and get you in/out of "work mode" 2. You don't have to cannibalize your home desk to make way for your work PC, or set up a second desk for work PC 3. No deciding what to get for lunch, it's whatever is closest or catered, no wanting a coffee and finding that you need to run to the store 4. If your team isn't meeting your sprint goa…

> The daily routine and commute helps reset your brain and get you in/out of "work mode"

This paints a rosy picture of the daily commute which is simply not true [1]. Furthermore, the argument that going into the office gets you in and out of "work mode" doesn't stand up either. With instant communication channels like email, Slack, et al and a lack of labor regulations regarding after-hour work communications (at least in the US), we were never able to be out of "work mode" pre-pandemic either.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/how-your-stressful-...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#775

Post by cgio »

dhx wrote: post #585
cgio wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEOs and leadership teams would not mind remote work I believe, at least not as a general rule, given there are benefits to the bottom line, e.g. real estate, other expenses, productivity arguably. What I think is the key concern for leadership teams, is that remote work does not allow for an environment to train the next generation of workers. Most of the experienced people do just fine remotely, but imagine wfh exc…

What is the benefit of mentoring or guiding less experienced workers through new tasks in person as opposed to remotely with voice calls and screen sharing / live multi-user document editing / similar real time collaboration tools? I've generally found remote work a better model as all people involved can edit the same document / diagram / model / code at the same time collaboratively, or at least have a better view…

I don’t disagree and that is largely the consideration behind my closing statement. Nevertheless, keep in mind this makes assumptions on technical acuity of both mentors and mentees and the fact is there is a generational gap between them that might reflect on their ability to use these tools for mentoring relationships. I don’t claim having an answer, but I have been exposed to such discussions at high levels and I have seen people being concerned about this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#777

Post by nojito »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #711
nojito wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at Apple but my company's internal data shows productivity is better as a hybrid vs pure WFH/In Office for many departments

Interesting, however I think any data gathered during the pandemic is not too useful. WFH is very abnormal currently for most. My current WFH productivity is certainly lower than when I WFH pre-pandemic. If I was making decisions about the future of a company I would allow totally flexibility for at least 6 months post-pandemic so I could gather more accurate data. Trying to make people decide what they want (remote/…

It's not pandemic data. It's strictly post surge data.

All employees were WFH starting March 2020 and we assumed hybrid status for most departments starting in Jan

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#778

Post by [deleted] »

deanCommie wrote: post #445
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

You don't have to commute. You chose to commute. You maybe did it for a larger house. Or maybe for cheaper rent/mortgage. We're not talking here about folks on minimum wage who can only afford to live 2 hours outside of the city they are working in. The highly paid software engineers on hackernews could absolutely afford to live 5 minutes from the office, 30 minutes from the office, or 2 hours from the office. They c…

[deleted]

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#779

Post by afavour »

dahfizz wrote: post #763
TeMPOraL wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really getting my hackles up with corporations making end users responsible for things like plastic, industrial farming and co2 emissions. Me too, but GP has an argument along these lines here. Commute is a big, and often deciding factor, in private car ownership. Get rid of it, and most drivers will lose the major reason for owning a car. Expand the delivery systems for day-to-day stuff like groceries, and ano…

> Get rid of it, and most drivers will lose the major reason for owning a car. I think this is backwards. We saw during the pandemic a mass exodus from cities. Once people could work from home, they decided they didn't want to live in a city anymore. Once you remove the burden of commuting, suburban / rural life becomes _even more_ attractive, increasing the need for cars.

> Once people could work from home, they decided they didn't want to live in a city anymore.

IMO it’s too early to claim that. People left the city during the pandemic because there was no point paying the premium to live in a city when all its amenities are closed. As cities open back up we might see a lot of people return. Anecdotally, I know a bunch of early career folks in their 20s that moved back in with their parents during the pandemic to save cash. That most certainly isn’t their long term plan.

I don’t doubt that a good number of folks won’t return to the city once this is over. But I wonder if that’s just an acceleration of moves they would have already made in the next 5 years or so, rather than something indicative of the death of cities.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#780

Post by dahfizz »

heavyset_go wrote: post #196
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Whenever the discussion of commuting comes up, the discussion revolves around worst case scenarios.

We are software engineers! There is no reason for us to put up with a worst case or even an average case commute. If we want to go into the office, it's easy for us to move house or move job.

Its not worth agonizing over a few bucks an hour, especially when going into the office has its own monetary benefits as OP mentioned. It would be a non-issue for most people here to just pay for an Uber back and forth to work, and not have to worry about driving at all.

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