Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen • Hacker News Board

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#141

Post by ableal » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

bildung wrote: post #54

dagw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think we'll see charging poles next to most public parking spaces before we see a sufficiently built out network of H2 'gas stations'.

I think this underestimates the massive infrastructure investments those charging poles would need to work. I live in a medium density European town (about 1000 inhabitants/km2, think 4-5 story buildings on average). In residential areas the whole street is lined with parked cars on both sides. To charge these, one would need something like 1MW charging per every 4 cars, which means every 20m of the road, on both sid…

> one would need something like 1MW charging per every 4 cars,

10 kW per 4 cars is plenty enough.

I charge overnight a 24 kWh Nissan Leaf (If those were available at all parking spots in the city (say from city lamps), everybody could have electric cars.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#142

Post by 542458 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

beckingz wrote: post #137

542458 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Make it bigger” does work, but it increasingly stops resembling a car. Check out the range this one can get on a single tank of hydrogen! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas-Centaur I don’t know what you’d consider the max range here to be, but it’s definitely better than 887km.

I think the space shuttle may win for most kilometers traveled on a single hydrogen tank.

I would have citied that, but they use solid boosters which makes the number messier... I could get a lot of range on a Tesla if I was allowed to use solid fuel boosters!

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#143

Post by kazoomonger » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

AAA_Rating wrote: post #122

kazoomonger wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years (i.e. lots of rubber on the road), and I'm not going back. Judging by the number of Teslas I see driving on the road every time I'm out, I don't think other people are going back either. This is in Minnesota too, with very icy and cold winters. I've seen that commonly brought up as an anti-EV talking point, but it's empirically wrong.

Hydrogen has the same infrastructure as gasoline. A "recharge" takes as much as 40 seconds. EVs have a negative impact in the quality of life of those who buy them because they cost more and have the problem of recharging time. It's simply an own goal you are doing to your team which in this case is your family because of woke ideals. Lower mantainence costs is also a legend unless we are talking about Toyotas and Be…

I really just fucking love plugging in at home to charge (and so does my family, and no I'm not just saying that). I don't want "infrastructure". I would take even slower charging if it meant I got to charge at home. As-is, I'm very satisfied, and excited to see where EV tech goes. I'm sure in a few years the charging speed and range I've got now will be peanuts to what's out there.

My maintenance costs have been tire rotations. I joked to the service tech that I'm sorry they're not making more money off of me.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#144

Post by _ph_ » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

nobleach wrote: post #130

Robotbeat wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Similar to a liquid fueled car, but worse than an electric car in most circumstances. But the problem is there will never be an equivalent hydrogen network as there is gasoline network because hydrogen fueling stations are far more expensive to install and maintain. Either the station overhead ends up much higher than gasoline or hydrogen is used much more rarely. Electric car distance records as of 2018 are 1…

I think the two biggest sellers of Hydrogen electric over battery electric, are the fact that batteries have a useful life. That life degrades over time. Hydrogen doesn't have this characteristic. Secondly, cold weather doesn't affect Hydrogen electric vehicles the way that it does with battery electric. If one lives in a cold weather climate, owning a Tesla isn't as advantageous.

Both the pressure tanks as well as the fuel cells themselves degrade over time and need to be maintained and replaced.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#145

Post by dagw » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #119

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to fill up the tank in 2 minutes is the value proposition. When driving a lot or long distances, it matters. Also, not everybody has the possibility to charge at home.

It isn’t that much of a value proposition. Modern EVs do fast charging pretty well. Given that it takes on the order of 10 minutes to pull off a freeway, navigate a traffic light or two, select a pump, pay, use the restroom, grab a snack from the store, and then navigate another intersection to get back on the freeway, adding 5 more minutes to that time to make it a fast charging stop is not really a big deal.

Can modern EVs really fast charge in only 8-10 minutes? I thought we where still talking on the order of 30+ minutes.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#146

Post by bombcar » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #116

KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring: 1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars. 2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc) 3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc It drives me absolutely…

It's not scientific at all, but for most people gas mileage comes down to "how often do I have to go to the gas station".

Which is why once electric cars passed a certain point they become effectively infinite mileage as far as people are concerned (as they never have to think about charging as it's always charged overnight).

Similar for how for most people there are only two speeds of computers - I have to wait for it vs I don't have to wait for it.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#147

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #76

yonaguska wrote: post #63

> “I was constantly checking the Nexo’s efficiency readout to maximise the distance I was getting per kilogram of hydrogen. I found that by using techniques from rally driving, such as looking as far down the road as possible, as well as tips I have learned from my dad for driving a truck efficiently over long distances, it’s actually possible to go way beyond Nexo’s official range.” Anyone have some insights on this…

It generally breaks down to don’t brake unless you have to, and know & use the performance characteristics of whatever you’re driving. This might mean slowing down while anticipating stoplight changes, curves or congestion behavior so you can just keep rolling, not accelerating over the top of a hill or entering a decline with excess speed, leaving a good distance to the car in front and so on. Also knowing the effic…

[deleted]

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#148

Post by simcop2387 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #68

snypher wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can picture how the conversation would go. There's some pretty big differences between hydrogen and hydraulic fluid, probably to the point of whole component redesign. The little crap here (springs and o-rings) would be completely different.

You're not wrong but "can you make hose X with material Y" or "can I get valve body P with spring rate Q" is a hell of a lot better than "we need custom hoses" or "is this casting good to 10kpsi?".

The big problem with hydrogen is just how small it is. It likes to leach through stuff hold just about everything else. You very well might need custom hoses, custom seals, and custom materials for the castings just to safely store it at 10kpsi. It'll leak through solid steel containers that will otherwise hold helium fine.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#149

Post by hannob » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

alex_young wrote: post #62

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

It's not a fossil fuel byproduct. It's a fossil fuel product.

You take natural gas, split it in a process called steam reforming, you get hydrogen and CO2 emissions.

Green hydrogen only exists in very small quantities these days and for many years to come it'll be needed to first replace existing natural gas based hydrogen and to decarbonize industries like steel. There's basically a consensus among energy experts these days that hydrogen in cars is a dead end.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#150

Post by Robotbeat » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

nobleach wrote: post #130

Robotbeat wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Similar to a liquid fueled car, but worse than an electric car in most circumstances. But the problem is there will never be an equivalent hydrogen network as there is gasoline network because hydrogen fueling stations are far more expensive to install and maintain. Either the station overhead ends up much higher than gasoline or hydrogen is used much more rarely. Electric car distance records as of 2018 are 1…

I think the two biggest sellers of Hydrogen electric over battery electric, are the fact that batteries have a useful life. That life degrades over time. Hydrogen doesn't have this characteristic. Secondly, cold weather doesn't affect Hydrogen electric vehicles the way that it does with battery electric. If one lives in a cold weather climate, owning a Tesla isn't as advantageous.

absolutely wrong. Hydrogen fuel cells absolutely degrade over time (they are batteries! Just with more maintenance required due to needing fluids pumped through them). Their lifetime for automotive applications is about 5000 hours, or 150,000-200,000 miles, which is less than what a Model 3’s battery will last.

https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/progress18/tahi_lohse-b...

Cold weather isn’t a major problem, either, you just will want to get a heat pump option. Electric cars are insanely popular in Norway, and it doesn’t seem to be a significant problem.