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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#111

Post by [deleted] »

bildung wrote: post #54
dagw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think we'll see charging poles next to most public parking spaces before we see a sufficiently built out network of H2 'gas stations'.

I think this underestimates the massive infrastructure investments those charging poles would need to work. I live in a medium density European town (about 1000 inhabitants/km2, think 4-5 story buildings on average). In residential areas the whole street is lined with parked cars on both sides. To charge these, one would need something like 1MW charging per every 4 cars, which means every 20m of the road, on both sid…

[deleted]

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#112

Post by kazoomonger »

AAA_Rating wrote: post #89

Hydrogen is not dead, all the hate it has been getting from Musk made people leave the space. If somebody bets on it right now it seems like a better bet compared to say 5 years ago. The whole promotional attitude towards EV will cause an EV winter when the rubber meets the road and things aren't as rosy as advertised. Mark my words. It's already happening .

I doubt that. I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years (i.e. lots of rubber on the road), and I'm not going back. Judging by the number of Teslas I see driving on the road every time I'm out, I don't think other people are going back either.

This is in Minnesota too, with very icy and cold winters. I've seen that commonly brought up as an anti-EV talking point, but it's empirically wrong.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#113

Post by dagw »

rplnt wrote: post #90
colinmhayes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can charge at work and the grocery store. Still much nicer than going to the gas station, especially in the winter.

You can now, but it doesn't scale that well if electric car usage increases 10-fold for example (which is still a very little fraction of total).

The number of charging poles I see in public and store parking lots has literally increased 10-fold over the past 3 years. To the point where I always see several free charging points every time I bother to look. I'm reasonably convinced that this scaling can continue at the rate of electric car adoption.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#114

Post by numpad0 »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #44
teddyh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s precisely that; with electric, there’s no special product to sell you. With hydrogen, or ethanol, the old oil and gas companies can more easily pivot into simply selling another chemical product. With electric cars, the oil and gas companies are like cable TV in the age of the internet; their days are numbered, and they fear it like nothing else. (Also, governments have nothing to levy special taxes on i…

Asian countries like Japan, Korea and China are the ones who are still pushing hydrogen tech. None of these are big oil producing nations so the conspiracy theory does not make sense.

There is supposedly a huge gas deposit under the sea between those three countries so it’s supposedly just a matter of negotiating and setting up a fair mining operations and start extracting it to theoretically become big oils overnight.

That isn’t how things work but that’s the logic behind pushing Hydrogen.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#115

Post by judge2020 »

KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

The amount actually traveled on a single tank is indeed meaningless - Teslas can go a thousand miles if you go up a mountain, end up at 10% battery, then charge to & past 100% on the way down the mountain via regen. Improving overall efficiency should be what is strived for.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#116

Post by NikolaNovak »

KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring:

1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars.

2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc)

3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc

It drives me absolutely bonkers banana berserk, but... nothing I've been able to do so far :-/

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#117

Post by SigmundA »

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds.

As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo.

I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles).

The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price, while the Nexo advertises 380 miles vs 353 miles.

It doesn't seem like current fuels cell have much of a energy density / range advantage even though hydrogen itself is much more energy dense, the fuel cell weight and efficiency and high pressure liquid hydrogen tanks must be accounted for.

Also fuel cell cars seem to use a buffer battery and have lower power output than BEV's as current fuel cells can't output as much burst power and can't store power from regenerative braking with out a battery somewhere.

Pretty skeptical about hydrogen fuel cells compared to the continued advancement in battery tech.

1.https://electrek.co/2018/05/27/tesla-model-3-range-new-hyper...

Edit: very good efficiency comparison of hydrogen vs batteries by Volkswagen, which to me shows the biggest issue with using hydrogen in cars the "well to wheel" efficiency:

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/08/hydroge...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#118

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jeffbee wrote: post #93
bkor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes Only if the gas station has enough hydrogen at the right pressure. After a few cars it'll need 45+min to build up pressure again. The gas stations are really expensive due to the problems, plus there are more restrictions on where they can be placed. Hydrogen for cars is great for companies such as Shell. For the foreseeable future they expect most of the Hydrogen to be…

What are the restrictions? There’s a hydrogen station in Berkeley in University Avenue across the street from a school and with houses on two sides.

I think he meant fire safety of hydrogen requires more consideration than an electric charger.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#119

Post by bdamm »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #42
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Being able to fill up the tank in 2 minutes is the value proposition. When driving a lot or long distances, it matters. Also, not everybody has the possibility to charge at home.

It isn’t that much of a value proposition. Modern EVs do fast charging pretty well. Given that it takes on the order of 10 minutes to pull off a freeway, navigate a traffic light or two, select a pump, pay, use the restroom, grab a snack from the store, and then navigate another intersection to get back on the freeway, adding 5 more minutes to that time to make it a fast charging stop is not really a big deal.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#120

Post by thehappypm »

GuB-42 wrote: post #97
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better. It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars. And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and us…

Hydrogen isn't used in rockets much. It's actually not energy dense enough compared to more exotic fuels.
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