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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#121

Post by bkor »

kazoomonger wrote: post #112
AAA_Rating wrote: post #89

Hydrogen is not dead, all the hate it has been getting from Musk made people leave the space. If somebody bets on it right now it seems like a better bet compared to say 5 years ago. The whole promotional attitude towards EV will cause an EV winter when the rubber meets the road and things aren't as rosy as advertised. Mark my words. It's already happening .

I doubt that. I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years (i.e. lots of rubber on the road), and I'm not going back. Judging by the number of Teslas I see driving on the road every time I'm out, I don't think other people are going back either. This is in Minnesota too, with very icy and cold winters. I've seen that commonly brought up as an anti-EV talking point, but it's empirically wrong.

> I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years

Isn't the Leaf known for poor battery temperature management? This causes the battery perform way worse over time than other EVs. A battery performing way poorer over time is a common fear that I've noticed. If someone notices this and doesn't know it's unique (caused by manufacturer not doing enough) then I'd expect some Leaf-owning people to dislike EVs.

The huge price difference between charging an EV at home vs anywhere else is why I dislike an EV. Though I actually do not dislike EVs, I dislike the price difference.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#122

Post by AAA_Rating »

kazoomonger wrote: post #112
AAA_Rating wrote: post #89

Hydrogen is not dead, all the hate it has been getting from Musk made people leave the space. If somebody bets on it right now it seems like a better bet compared to say 5 years ago. The whole promotional attitude towards EV will cause an EV winter when the rubber meets the road and things aren't as rosy as advertised. Mark my words. It's already happening .

I doubt that. I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years (i.e. lots of rubber on the road), and I'm not going back. Judging by the number of Teslas I see driving on the road every time I'm out, I don't think other people are going back either. This is in Minnesota too, with very icy and cold winters. I've seen that commonly brought up as an anti-EV talking point, but it's empirically wrong.

Hydrogen has the same infrastructure as gasoline. A "recharge" takes as much as 40 seconds. EVs have a negative impact in the quality of life of those who buy them because they cost more and have the problem of recharging time. It's simply an own goal you are doing to your team which in this case is your family because of woke ideals.

Lower mantainence costs is also a legend unless we are talking about Toyotas and Benz build quality. Teslas have lots of issues, don't know about the Leaf.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#123

Post by Widdershin »

judge2020 wrote: post #115
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

The amount actually traveled on a single tank is indeed meaningless - Teslas can go a thousand miles if you go up a mountain, end up at 10% battery, then charge to & past 100% on the way down the mountain via regen. Improving overall efficiency should be what is strived for.

Assuming you’re starting with a significant amount of altitude, otherwise the laws of thermodynamics would like a word

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#124

Post by Closi »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #116
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring: 1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars. 2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc) 3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc It drives me absolutely…

I hate to tell you this but 90% of your friends are silly, all mine talk about miles per gallon.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#125

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rplnt wrote: post #90
colinmhayes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can charge at work and the grocery store. Still much nicer than going to the gas station, especially in the winter.

You can now, but it doesn't scale that well if electric car usage increases 10-fold for example (which is still a very little fraction of total).

It scales better than green production of hydrogen does

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#126

Post by gorjusborg »

gonehome wrote: post #17
rorykoehler wrote: post #4

I have an acquaintance who has made a substantial fortune from energy focused startups (including a battery tech one) and is now working on another hard tech startup and they are very critical of hydrogen as a fuel. I’ve had superficial conversations with them about it but could never get a sense of their fundamental arguments. Is hydrogen a non starter or are they just protecting their investments with FUD?

The arguments I’ve seen have specifically been about hydrogen in the context of EVs (specifically almost always as a way to dismiss EVs). - The trade-offs work in favor of EVs, hydrogen has a similar distribution problem to gasoline (fueling stations). - Hydrogen requires production somehow, electricity we already have the grid and people can charge at home - The things hydrogen is good at (lighter weight than batter…

The chicken or egg problem with charging is one of the reasons I tend to down-weight the opinions of EV owners when talking about the future of transportation.

People that own EVs have to deal with the lack of supporting infrastructure, and have a vested interest in steering public opinion to go in a direction they have already personally committed.

That doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong about the future, just that they have incentives that could cause them to hang onto some bad ideas because they adopted early (and want to save face).

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#127

Post by [deleted] »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #53
cbolton wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to store energy by generating H2, is it more efficient to consume it in small cars rather than in big plants that convert it back to electrical power on demand?

I don't think the previous commenter meant converting it back; just that if there is an excess of power, e.g. on a sunny and windy day, that can be captured into H2 which is much easier to store than electricity. It wouldn't be converted back to electricity for the grid.

[deleted]

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#128

Post by new_realist »

SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

The Nexo is much less aerodynamic than the Model 3. One is an SUV/CUV, the other is a low sedan which looks like wet poop. The Nexo has more frontal area and a higher CD. And the Tesla is known for rigging its EPA tests for higher, but illusory, numbers.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#129

Post by SigmundA »

adrian_b wrote: post #105
MengerSponge wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Gasoline has a relatively narrow ignition range, it has much less rigorous sealing requirements, and it burns with a flame that's visible in daylight. The problem is that we can't easily make gasoline with solar panels and water.

Actually it is possible to make gasoline with solar panels, water and carbon dioxide from the air. Making synthetic gasoline was already possible before WWII and that was used a lot by Germany. It is true that making hydrogen is easier, because making gasoline requires additional steps and equipment, but due to the large disadvantages of storing and handling hydrogen, making gasoline is nonetheless preferable and it…

Or just charge a battery with the solar panels at much greater efficiency.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#130

Post by nobleach »

Robotbeat wrote: post #107
jdblair wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how you define convenient. Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes, like a conventional liquid fueled car. If there were a network of hydrogen filling stations then driving, especially long distances, would be similar to driving a liquid fueled car.

Right. Similar to a liquid fueled car, but worse than an electric car in most circumstances. But the problem is there will never be an equivalent hydrogen network as there is gasoline network because hydrogen fueling stations are far more expensive to install and maintain. Either the station overhead ends up much higher than gasoline or hydrogen is used much more rarely. Electric car distance records as of 2018 are 1…

I think the two biggest sellers of Hydrogen electric over battery electric, are the fact that batteries have a useful life. That life degrades over time. Hydrogen doesn't have this characteristic. Secondly, cold weather doesn't affect Hydrogen electric vehicles the way that it does with battery electric. If one lives in a cold weather climate, owning a Tesla isn't as advantageous.
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