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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#131

Post by bryanlarsen »

whatever1 wrote: post #79
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian countries like Japan, Korea and China are the ones who are still pushing hydrogen tech. None of these are big oil producing nations so the conspiracy theory does not make sense.

Plus the folks here probably forget what poverty looks like. In areas with no infrastructure the only way of getting energy is to literally carry it home for your stove or motorcycle. Gas is ideal for these cases. Hydrogen cylinders maybe? Batteries are definitely a no go to transport energy.

Those cars have 10,000 PSI tanks, and Hydrogen is notorious for leaking through everything. It's not an option for places with no infrastructure.

Trickle charging a battery with a small solar panel is what no-infrastructure places are moving towards for charging phones and other electronics. That's not enough energy for cooking or transportation, yet, but I can see it moving towards that.

Another option is synthetic fuel. Currently horribly expensive because it is energy intensive and still experimental, it may become viable if solar energy prices continue to drop. It's much less efficient than an EV, but it works with existing gas/diesel/kerosene infrastructure.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#132

Post by giantg2 »

tyingq wrote: post #99
giantg2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydride tanks don't require those high pressures. Other than nuclear arms treaties, is there a technical reason they don't use those instead?

Long fill times? This commercially available one says 48 hours to re-charge it. https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-st...

Yeah, but ideally they'd be swappable. Similar to propane tank exchanges. Or even how some EVs were thinking about battery swap stations.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#133

Post by 542458 »

contriban wrote: post #52
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

“Make it bigger” does work, but it increasingly stops resembling a car. Check out the range this one can get on a single tank of hydrogen!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas-Centaur

I don’t know what you’d consider the max range here to be, but it’s definitely better than 887km.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#134

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #42
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Being able to fill up the tank in 2 minutes is the value proposition. When driving a lot or long distances, it matters. Also, not everybody has the possibility to charge at home.

An electric charger costs less than the fuel cell does, so it makes very little sence unless this is being used in industrial equipment

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#135

Post by effie »

mrweasel wrote: post #3

It doesn't say anything about the size of the tank, which seems a little weird. Technically you could break that record by adding a bigger tank. Does anyone know what this means: "It purified 449,100 litres of air on the journey – enough for 33 adults to breathe in a day." Why is the car purifying air while driving? Is this a side effect of hydrogen powered cars?

The car has an HEPA filter which removes dust from the air which is nice but that's not the whole story, as can be expected from marketing.

6.3kg of hydrogen consumed means 50 kg of atmospheric oxygen consumed, which is 170 000 liters of air. So it purified 450 000 liters but it also removed oxygen from that same air, around 38% of it. I would not breathe that exhaust air, it may not be CO2 rich, but it sure is oxygen depleted.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#136

Post by bkor »

GuB-42 wrote: post #97
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better. It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars. And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and us…

> And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and use it in vehicles.

I've seem this statement loads of times before. But actually, Hydrogen production is not economical if you do not produce it continuously. Meaning, it does not make economical sense to only use excess energy capacity. Further, Hydrogen for cars is highly inefficient if you take all of the steps into account.

For the foreseeable future the common expectation is that Hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels (e.g. read forecasts from analysts or companies such as Shell). This while at the same time they pretend it'll make this more green.

Hydrogen is already produced in huge quantities btw, but it's somewhat hidden as it's used by industry. Meaning, most people wouldn't even notice it. Unlike e.g. seeing a new hydrogen gas station.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#137

Post by beckingz »

542458 wrote: post #133
contriban wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

“Make it bigger” does work, but it increasingly stops resembling a car. Check out the range this one can get on a single tank of hydrogen! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas-Centaur I don’t know what you’d consider the max range here to be, but it’s definitely better than 887km.

I think the space shuttle may win for most kilometers traveled on a single hydrogen tank.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#138

Post by hwillis »

contriban wrote: post #52
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

While it's true that you could add probably double the H2 storage to most HFC vehicles, I think this is the correct take. The Mirai's fuel tank is 37.25 gallons/141 liters vs 12-15 gallons/45-55 liters of gasoline for most cars.

Tank capacity only helps so much. You may have to fill up half as often, but having to go out of your way for a special station is annoying. ICE vehicles could easily have 40 gallon tanks, and eventually FCVs won't have these incredibly high ranges.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#139

Post by _ea1k »

bildung wrote: post #21
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Most people can't charge at home (because most people live in multi-story houses in a bigger cities and don't have a garage to charge in), so refueling in 2min at a gas station still has appeal.

At least 75% of Americans live in houses. A garage isn't necessary, just a driveway with access to an outlet.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#140

Post by batmenace »

onychomys wrote: post #64
alex_young wrote: post #62

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

Presumably it'll eventually be made by splitting water using electricity from renewable sources.

There are already early stage projects in France (and I assume other places as well) where Siemens Gamesa is using prototype turbines that does exactly this at an offshore wind farm
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