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Lima: Linux-on-Mac

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Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#251

Post by bscphil »

DCKing wrote: post #175
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

> As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This kind of thing easily goes both ways, and shows you're considering things only from a narrow angle. Which is understandable by the way - but please do consider other views :) There are lots of "basic things" that Linux doesn't get done, depending on your definition of basic thing. It's entirely reasonable for developers to…

> "accurate and versatile trackpad movement"

I think you should leave this one out, because it's at best subjective. I've had a much better experience with trackpads on Linux than I have had on any Mac I've used, thanks to the synaptics driver. Far more customizable as well. Additionally, until pretty recently you'd be stuck with the nasty hinge-based touch pad on Mac laptops which required quite a bit of force to push, and tap-to-click was very much an afterthought.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#252

Post by bscphil »

domano wrote: post #111
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done" After 10 years of linux it took me 1 month with a macbook to decide that i just dont have the time to keep my linux running the way i want to, play the hardware lottery and fear every major update (or every update after a vacation with arch).

> fear every major update

Like when a major macOS update bricks your computer and requires hardware repairs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Big_Sur#Criticism

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#253

Post by bovermyer »

kelnos wrote: post #173
bovermyer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Macbook Pro for development. I spend a fair amount of time in Linux servers. Running a Linux VM for local development of things that require Linux doesn't bother me. I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. When I'm using awk and grep, it's in Linux, not macOS. Not judging you or your opinion here - just explaining that I'm as bewildered by your experience as you are by mine.

> I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. It's great that works for you, but that only works for people whose brains are (or have become) attuned to Apple's (often... interesting) ways of doing things.

I won't deny that. Just because my workflow adheres to the one that macOS best suits does not mean it is the best workflow objectively, or the best workflow for any other individual.

It just means that it works well for me.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#254

Post by bovermyer »

smoldesu wrote: post #26
bovermyer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Macbook Pro for development. I spend a fair amount of time in Linux servers. Running a Linux VM for local development of things that require Linux doesn't bother me. I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. When I'm using awk and grep, it's in Linux, not macOS. Not judging you or your opinion here - just explaining that I'm as bewildered by your experience as you are by mine.

>I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. I think that's a mantra that applies a little better to Linux than it does MacOS. Linux is well known for it's customization, and you can really pad out your desktop to be an ergonomic and customized place designed for you. MacOS, on the other hand, is practically the definition of fighting your OS: you aren't allowed to have a proper package manager, Apple has to…

Substitute "more commonly" for "a little better" and you may be right.

As I mentioned in another comment, macOS works for me. Linux is more customizable, yes, that is objectively true. But macOS is uniquely structured by default to work how my brain works.

Just because something is more malleable does not mean it is the best solution for all people.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#255

Post by swiley »

dmitriid wrote: post #217
swiley wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It's incredibly useful basic functionality that both Finder and explorer inexplicably lack. This alone makes Linux desktops far more friendly even for novice users who want to do something beyond sharing gifs on web forums.

SFTP. Novice users. Why would a novice user want SFTP built-in to their file manager?

To move files between machines they own?

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#256

Post by rovr138 »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #244
rovr138 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. Reached out Apple whom, had I not been next to her, wanted her to create a new volume on her disk and reinstall Stopped her. Jumped in. Asked what the plan was and it was to format. The initial question was i…

Being a mac users and “supporter” for decades because of my wife I think it is so much better to have mac or even windows for general users. Or even for us IT guys. Just work and move on the problem you deal with. The problem is when the chip is down most of the case you are on your own. Not linux fault eg I have a small computer (touch based windows mini Pc) want to use it and from time to time the wireless adapter…

While we are both technical, the reason we've stayed is because we don't have to usually worry about things. Hardware support is 100% the key for us. We have a UNIX environment can just install the GNU tools and it behaves, in the most important aspects for us, as Linux. This is the first time we've been bitten by something like this in 10 years (Mid '11 MBA was our first device after wifi stopped working on her linux laptop and I didn't have time to figure it out).

It left a bad taste with me because they didn't communicate and support almost fucked it all up. A page with support would have been great and just, 'well, we don't support this or can't help you with this, but here's a support document you can read and try to understand the issue'. I also know they can definitely remove things from devices[0], so I don't know why this wasn't done for this installer.

[0] - https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/10/20689644/apple-zoom-web-s...

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#257

Post by rovr138 »

bscphil wrote: post #248
rovr138 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. Reached out Apple whom, had I not been next to her, wanted her to create a new volume on her disk and reinstall Stopped her. Jumped in. Asked what the plan was and it was to format. The initial question was i…

> > - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. > My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. It can get even worse than that. The Big Sur update "bricked" my MBP, along with many others, because a firmware update broke a part. Apple wanted $500 to replace the mainboard, I fixed it by replacing th…

Oh wow. Hadn't heard off this issue.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#258

Post by riffic »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #230
riffic wrote: post #206

Why would I want this as opposed to Vagrant, or Multipass even?

I don’t know about Lima, but Vagrant using Virtualbox won’t work on the new M1 macs (no plans of support).

eh, that's only a problem for those jumping into a brand new architecture without considering if anything's been ported into it yet.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#259

Post by da39a3ee »

phamilton wrote: post #2

Is IO still going to be horrible here? Docker on a linux VM, with all code on the linux VM, is significantly faster than Docker for Mac. Generally just because of IO.

With VSCode you can develop on mac with your code in a docker volume, so no need for the code syncing that you're referring to.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#260

Post by rovr138 »

zapita wrote: post #246
rubyist5eva wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used it last week...it's still really bad. Running IO heavy tests taking literally 100% more time for me. I'm just running openSUSE MicroOS with podman for my container workloads now, it's been rock solid.

Are you talking about IO on Docker for Mac when mounting files from the Mac host to the container? In that case, for an apples-to-apples comparison you would have to run your microOS+podman setup inside a VM on MacOS, then mount files from the host into that. I doubt the IO performance will be any better.

The whole point of the thread is about how running Docker on a Linux VM is faster than docker for Mac.
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