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Lima: Linux-on-Mac

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Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#241

Post by chipotle_coyote »

jpgvm wrote: post #149
__jem wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A package manager with up to date packages (granted there are Linuxbrew and things like Snap now for Linux.) On what planet is is homebrew better than Linux package managers? I agree with many of the other items in these lists, but this makes literally no sense to me. Homebrew is probably one of the worst things about doing dev on a mac.

Agree as a Mac user. I miss pacman from Arch. Now -that- is a nice package manager. It took the best (simple) parts from Gentoo and combined them with the better parts of apt/rpm/zypp etc.

I always found pacman a little weird to use, but I think that was more a function of its UI -- its commands and options just weren't easily memorable for me, and I had to look them up almost every time. Its actual functionality was great, though.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#242

Post by aphexairlines »

duskwuff wrote: post #121
seiferteric wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was hoping, I know there is irreconcilable differences between NT and linux kernels, but maybe there is hope on XNU.

I'd be surprised if there weren't already something out there to do this. Darling [1] already translates in the opposite direction with little difficulty; I'm not aware of any fundamental reason that you couldn't emulate Linux syscalls on XNU. [1]: https://github.com/darlinghq/darling

There was an attempt, but it was archived https://github.com/linux-noah/noah

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#243

Post by kall »

testific8 wrote: post #229
kall wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the #1 is that I believe directly paying relatively small developers money for software produces by far the most user friendly (in many senses) desktop software. On the mac, that model is still thriving. Everywhere else you have maybe a handful of great options. Apart from that you get some Electron SaaS, some ancient professional software and some messy open source options. If you‘re lucky maybe some m…

I don't think that feasable from a security standpoint. Ideally, software would be open-source and authored under the supervision of a handful of trusted parties. The metaphorical "chain of trust" is strongest when it's composed of a few strong links, and when its cracks are visible. What you're suggesting is that we should use a model with many small links and invisible cracks.

I‘m talking about desktop software for personal computers, not infrastructure software or services or anything. I trust the software developer and I trust apple. There’s a signature/certificate chain between those two. It’s fine.

Of course that‘s not acceptable for some people and for some use cases but it is for me.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#244

Post by ngcc_hk »

rovr138 wrote: post #109
ravenstine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

> - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. Reached out Apple whom, had I not been next to her, wanted her to create a new volume on her disk and reinstall Stopped her. Jumped in. Asked what the plan was and it was to format. The initial question was i…

Being a mac users and “supporter” for decades because of my wife I think it is so much better to have mac or even windows for general users. Or even for us IT guys. Just work and move on the problem you deal with.

The problem is when the chip is down most of the case you are on your own. Not linux fault eg I have a small computer (touch based windows mini Pc) want to use it and from time to time the wireless adapter disappear ... I just go out to get a planet computer version 3 simply because their version 1 has linux support. I beg they have tested sort of their linux dual boot.

Support. The hard part. And then the windows issue ... good luck to use linux not on VM, Docker ... and my lisp slimv work with some twist (macvim not vim-not).

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#245

Post by KptMarchewa »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #236
kelnos wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. Been running Xfce since 2004 with no stability issues whatsoever. > Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as well as my Mac. Oof, I guess you never got a Mac during 2016-2020 or so. They've been gradually declining in build quality. I owned Mac laptops continually from 2005 until 2019, and…

In my experience, with the exception of the keyboard, MacBooks have always had pretty good build quality. I know every single person reading this is screaming THAT'S A PRETTY BIG HONKING EXCEPTION and, yes, absolutely, but the "new" keyboard that replaced the butterfly style one -- which is really not a new keyboard at all, but essentially the external keyboard they've been using for years at this point -- is solid.…

i9 macbooks had so poor thermal performance that system was grinding to a halt if you tried to do stuff like run tests on all more than few cores in parallel.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#246

Post by zapita »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #118
tgv wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IO in Docker has improved greatly, some 6 months or so ago.

I used it last week...it's still really bad. Running IO heavy tests taking literally 100% more time for me. I'm just running openSUSE MicroOS with podman for my container workloads now, it's been rock solid.

Are you talking about IO on Docker for Mac when mounting files from the Mac host to the container? In that case, for an apples-to-apples comparison you would have to run your microOS+podman setup inside a VM on MacOS, then mount files from the host into that. I doubt the IO performance will be any better.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#247

Post by xodice »

waiseristy wrote: post #190
aequitas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont' forget: - Multi- and highres monitor support out of the box with proper scaling and readable fonts - A package manager with up to date packages (granted there are Linuxbrew and things like Snap now for Linux.) - Applications that have a consistent UI/UX and all use the same keyboard shortcuts > All the customization doesn't offset the trouble that desktop Linux can bring. It's nice you can customize almost ever…

> Multi- and highres monitor support out of the box with proper scaling and readable fonts What's funny, is this is the complete opposite experience that I had in every single way. Multi-monitors absolutely suck on macos unless you drop $1000 on mac monitors Try running two external monitors with differing resolutions, in my experience, it will be stable about 1 time out of 20. The rest will have artifacting, refusal…

Meanwhile I use both a 1080p display and a 1440p display (Both Dell displays) with zero issues on macOS Big Sur.

I get no odd behavior, both monitors are always detected nor do I see artifacting or anything other issue. There was some minor pink lines on the boot up screen that have since been fixed in the latest release. (M1 Mac mini)

I can't really say I noticed a difference personally since they removed text aliasing on 1440p or lower, however it's a single toggle to turn back on.

I get zero mouse lag with differing resolutions and I use both a Magic Mouse 2 and a Magic Touchpad 2.

anecdotes are always going to differ.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#248

Post by bscphil »

rovr138 wrote: post #109
ravenstine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

> - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. Reached out Apple whom, had I not been next to her, wanted her to create a new volume on her disk and reinstall Stopped her. Jumped in. Asked what the plan was and it was to format. The initial question was i…

> > - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS.

> My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade.

It can get even worse than that. The Big Sur update "bricked" my MBP, along with many others, because a firmware update broke a part. Apple wanted $500 to replace the mainboard, I fixed it by replacing the broken "i/o board" with a $5 part from ebay and like 30 minutes of work.

Given that this is the only Apple computer I've ever owned, it's understandable that unlike the grandparent I don't have the highest opinion of Apple's work. Ironically, nothing like this has ever happened on Linux to me.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#249

Post by rovr138 »

MandieD wrote: post #213
rovr138 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. My wife got bit by the Big Sur bug, 2 weeks ago, were the installer doesn’t check if there’s enough disk space available before starting the upgrade. Reached out Apple whom, had I not been next to her, wanted her to create a new volume on her disk and reinstall Stopped her. Jumped in. Asked what the plan was and it was to format. The initial question was i…

Have you written a post somewhere about how you got her data back, or what was something online that helped you?

I’ve been setting up a NAS, storage and other things to try and prevent this again. Letting the old sysadmin side come out. I have a trip so trying to do that before then.

I have the export from the terminal session to do the write up.

I’ll try and see if I can at least start it tomorrow.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#250

Post by bscphil »

honr wrote: post #237
ravenstine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

I use both. Here is my take on it: 1. Mac has shit for a window manager. When I focus and get in the flow, Mac's window manager becomes a massive showstopper for me. My productivity lives and dies by my window manager customizations and shortcuts. Mac's is just a joke when it comes to controling 20+ windows. I sometimes have 100+ editor, terminal, and browser windows. Linux has many window managers up to the task (i3…

This is a great, high effort post, and it matches my experience pretty well. Couple of comments:

> Laptop build quality

You're absolutely right here. When I had to take apart a MBP last year it was way easier than I expected from their reputation for being non-serviceable. I certainly wish parts weren't soldered on to the board, but that's an understandable tradeoff, maybe. I think my biggest point of criticism is the battery bags: pretty every older Macbook seemingly has had them expand somewhat, while I still have no issues with my Dell battery (in a solid plastic case that's externally swapable). The choice of Torx screws for the internals is fantastic as well. I'll never order a Mac for myself, but I am ordering Torx screws and the first thing I'll do with the next laptop I buy is going to be replacing all the internal Phillips screws with Torx for long term serviceability.

The externals are really important too: you're pretty much guaranteed to get a high quality screen with a Mac for example.

> Appeal: Mac has clearly undergone far better UI/UX design

Also agree strongly with this, although it's still messy and the inability to configure many things the way you can in Linux is a pretty unfortunate tradeoff. Tiny UX issues still bite: the global menu bar makes multitasking a pain because macOS desktops have a single application global context - you have to switch which application you're working on before you can do anything with it. Likewise, while you can usually maximize windows in macOS, practically speaking it's assumed you'll never actually do this. For example, the dock will change widths depending on how many apps are open, so "maximizing" is not really meaningful (the window size does not change when this happens).

> Software compatibility

This one's kind of messy, as you say. If you use mostly open source applications, there are a ton of them which are Linux-first or Linux-only. macOS has a weird problem where the norm is to sell every desktop application on a slick React website at about the $40 price point. Obviously, it's mostly closed source too. Though as a Linux user, if you need Photoshop, you've pretty much got to dual boot. That alone is an enormous negative in the compatibility bracket.

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