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Lima: Linux-on-Mac

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Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#121

Post by duskwuff »

seiferteric wrote: post #41
the_duke wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft abandoned syscall emulation with WSL2. The differences between Linux and XNU might be less problematic, since it's a Unix derivative. But as Wine shows, it takes a lot of work and you still get a suboptimal, buggy experience.

This is what I was hoping, I know there is irreconcilable differences between NT and linux kernels, but maybe there is hope on XNU.

I'd be surprised if there weren't already something out there to do this. Darling [1] already translates in the opposite direction with little difficulty; I'm not aware of any fundamental reason that you couldn't emulate Linux syscalls on XNU.

[1]: https://github.com/darlinghq/darling

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#122

Post by dmitriid »

smoldesu wrote: post #26
bovermyer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Macbook Pro for development. I spend a fair amount of time in Linux servers. Running a Linux VM for local development of things that require Linux doesn't bother me. I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. When I'm using awk and grep, it's in Linux, not macOS. Not judging you or your opinion here - just explaining that I'm as bewildered by your experience as you are by mine.

>I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. I think that's a mantra that applies a little better to Linux than it does MacOS. Linux is well known for it's customization, and you can really pad out your desktop to be an ergonomic and customized place designed for you. MacOS, on the other hand, is practically the definition of fighting your OS: you aren't allowed to have a proper package manager, Apple has to…

>>I don't have to fight my OS.

> I think that's a mantra that applies a little better to Linux than it does MacOS. Linux is well known for it's customization

> pad out your desktop to be

You've just described fighting your OS.

I mean, sure, if you like customizing things and "padding your desktop", knock yourself out. The last thing I want to do on my machine is spending any time doing that.

> I don't really see how a Mac elevates your workflow that much

You listed package manager, coreutils, and VPN. That.... That is a minuscule part of a programmer's workflow. And for the vast majority of people who end up using Macs as their development machines these three are a non-issue.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#123

Post by devmor »

domano wrote: post #111
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done" After 10 years of linux it took me 1 month with a macbook to decide that i just dont have the time to keep my linux running the way i want to, play the hardware lottery and fear every major update (or every update after a vacation with arch).

After 2 months with a macbook supplied by my employer, I am literally begging to go back to a Windows or Linux machine.

I just don't understand how you can possibly be productive with these things if you have to do anything out of the norm. It's like bureaucracy as an operating system.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#124

Post by MR4D »

Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

Because the touchpad works.

And my dev is in the cloud (mostly).

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#125

Post by pkulak »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done?" Depends on the developer. How many developers use awk and grep? Most web developers probably have touched them once and never used them again, and prefer using MacOS compared to fighting Windows to do their web dev. Making a blanket statement that doing any development requires "fighting MacOS" is silly.

A couple years ago I realized that if I had a good terminal environment, all I really needed was a terminal, browser, and IDE.

So, by using Linux, I lose, I dunno, iPhoto and iCal and whatever, but I gain real Linux with a real Linux package manager and immediate access to the latest version of every tool I can imagine. Plus fun stuff like BTRFS, a tiling window manager, and a feeling that I'm actually in control of the system I spend 8 hours a day in front of.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#126

Post by globular-toast »

m463 wrote: post #62
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

I use macos for my desktop, but it has gradually become a terminal emulator + firefox + mail. and for mail, I won't move to catalina mail because they nerfed it. Eventually this will all be linux. I just have to make the time to figure out a good desktop setup. EDIT: actually preview (space bar in finder) on macos is quite useful.

That's pretty much what I use these days. Plus emacs. I run a minimal gentoo setup and hate using other computers as they are always sluggish despite having newer and more powerful hardware.

You should look into a tiling window manager. It's really liberating to stop worrying about wm behaviour.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#127

Post by deviantfero »

domano wrote: post #111
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done" After 10 years of linux it took me 1 month with a macbook to decide that i just dont have the time to keep my linux running the way i want to, play the hardware lottery and fear every major update (or every update after a vacation with arch).

I'll just repost something I wrote on some other thread one time:

I've changed my laptop 4 times now in 5 years for different reasons, when I do so, there's only a couple of things to consider:

if I'm upgrading the HDD (for example when I made the jump from HDD to SSD or from my 2.5inch SSD to my M2 SSD currently) I need to clone the drive to my new storage, otherwise I only need to swap out my storage device from my old laptop to my new one.

With linux it just works I don't have to fiddle for my devices to be found, everything is just where I left it, the biggest change was when I went from an intel based PC to an AMD one, I only had to switch the display drivers after the fact (I knew because X crashed, I had to do this from tty), but it is expected since the display cards are totally different, all it took was a: sudo pacman -S xf86-video-amdgpu and a restart.

having a rolling release distro helps too, because you really don't have a reason to nuke your install and start from scratch, but even if I decided to do that for whatever reason, since most configuration is done via text files I can easily save those in a repo and just clone them to my new install and be done in a few minutes.

drwx------ 2 root root 16384 Dec 25 2016 /lost+found

^ that's when I last installed linux, I've been using the same install through 5 years in 4 different devices, it's pretty cool.

Of course I do my research before purchasing a new device, see if there's anything on the arch linux forums that's causing trouble with that particular device, but beyond that, it's all been good for quite a bit, I've never used another OS for this long without doing a hard format and performance hasn't suffered at all, I have almost every development environment available to me one command away (except for Xcode and some Windows specific stuff ofc).

but, my counterpoint is, I feel all OSs are decent enough nowadays and all provide good enough or better functionality OOTB, so for me it has become more subjective than anything, there are strengths and weaknesses to all of them, and I wouldn't be particularly bothered if I had to use one of them because of some requirement or something, but if the choice is mine, it's GNU/Linux

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#128

Post by [deleted] »

vvanpo wrote: post #59
ravenstine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

There are many ways macOS improves over Linux desktops, but file explorers is not one of the arguments I would have made. Finder is practically unusable.

[deleted]

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#129

Post by devmor »

officeplant wrote: post #99
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I Just recently I learned you can't add more swap ( creating a swap file and adding it ). That seems incredible to me." At what point are you just approaching MacOS with the wrong mindset? MacOS isn't something you should or need to manage swap for or should really think about. It's the same reason you don't think about managing swap on Windows or your iPhone or your Android or your Smart TV.

>It's the same reason you don't think about managing swap on Windows Except one of the first things I do on any Windows setup is to move the page file somewhere else or resize it.

Same here. It feels like the people going gung-ho for macbooks here are the type of people that would take their computer to best buy if they got a boot loop instead of just fixing it.

Kind of incomprehensible to me that anyone in that mindset would be a developer.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#130

Post by user3939382 »

vvanpo wrote: post #59
ravenstine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

There are many ways macOS improves over Linux desktops, but file explorers is not one of the arguments I would have made. Finder is practically unusable.

I have to use TotalFinder to be able to cut and paste files which I find very strange after all the years of experience on other OSes. I also resent not being able to conduct basic file management in file selection dialogs. Other missing features I have to hack around with scripts or add-ons: Copy terminal-friendly path, open current folder in terminal, create a blank text file here. Probably more.
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