As an American abroad I'm very jealous. I've strongly considered flying back to the states to get vaccinated.
Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#632Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728
The vaccine keys your immune system on a mostly unchanging part of the virus. It’s such a key part of the virus that for the virus to mutate that part it would be a dramatically different and less deadly mutation.
In an infection your body randomly keys on any of a large number of characteristics of the virus. Those almost certainly will be less lasting than the vaccine.
That’s why to get the vaccine.
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#633I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…
As a "side read" I started "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" in Dec 2020, and finished a couple or so weeks ago. The book is thorough. It covers history, political systems, individual psychology, sociology, and more. The context being (data-based) surveillance as a means to nudge and manipulate behavior - individually and masses. While it focuses on big tech, it's lessons are in fact universal.
In any case, stepping back from the pandemic and other personal biases, the tactics and narrative of the last 15+ months begin to feel like some new (covert?) form of totalitarianism.
- There's an evil enemy that must be intricated for the good of all.
- There's hyperbolic fear and widespread death. The deaths are real, but data is cherry-picked in a propaganda-y sort of way. Correlation is more important than causation.
- There is a lone figure-head we must promise our allegiance and dedication to. Signs on front yards, t-shirts, etc. Note: No one voted for Fauci. And while he's certainly accomplished it's difficult to imagine one single opinion - in a cloud of unknowns - could carry so much authority.
- Churches were closed, as were other assemblies. The State persists. It's powers broader.
- There is a tide of "The State knows best (your rights and liberty be damned.)" Do as you're told or you will be marginalized or (socially) silenced. As long as you cooperate and follow the gov's you will be safe.
Please try not to knee-jerk. The above list are simple facts.
All that aside, for anyone still trusting of the CDC it's best to check the data on causes of death prior to this pandemic. Make note of how many of those conditions are preventable. Nrxt track down the Covid death's comorbidies - which are rarely mentioned - that killer Covid pairs well with. To say Covid killed someone who was (e.g.) morbidly obese is misleading. It's called morbidly obese for a reason.
Ultimately, Covid 19 is a symptom. It's a symptom of our heath personally and as a society. It's a symptom of bigger and broader forces "at war" over who is in control.
Yeah, sounds like madness. But please keep in mind, so did totalitarianism.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/living-und...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Surveillance_Capi...
p.s. There's a chapter in Adam Grant's book "Think Again" on jabs, and how to go about convincing someone to think again about their anti vax ideas. What we've been doing for Covid is off target. Yet why is that? Adam Grant knows something the whole of the USA readership does not?
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#634Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.
Please also note it is unnecessary to do any additional analysis to describe the example cited as a "lie." We know it was a deliberate lie because the then head of the CDC has said so [1] - unless he was lying about claiming he was lying there's not much doubt in that case. The CDC lie when it suits them isn't something that's really debatable. Does it matter that they lied? This is the proposition that can be debate…
As a Daoist, this is the important point.
"Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder. Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones. He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal."
- Dao De Jing, Chapter 3, The Chinese Text Project
I feel we are at the end result of "keeping those who have knowledge from acting on it". Misinformation is spread by people with the knowledge of how to control people and they tell people they are smart and they need to act.
I do not agree with Fauci's decision, but there was no other choice.
Look at what happened with the gas panic this week, it is the same thing was written about here:
https://songofthedao.substack.com/p/panic-at-the-gas-station
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#635Earlier quoted context omitted.
2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…
The director of the CDC during most of the pandemic was Robert Redfield. Dr. Fauci is director of the NIH, so his statements are not relevant to the credibility of the CDC. In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective", as it keeps getting paraphrased. The latter is obviously absurd, as there were numerous studies on the effec…
> In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective"
If masks are effective, that would be a compelling reason for someone to wear a mask. Saying there is no reason to wear a mask, strongly implies that they aren't beneficial to the individual wearing them. Fauci must have known that this is how people would have interpreted his statements. He should have said "there are very compelling reasons not to wear a mask", which is very different from "there is no reason to wear a mask".
I understand that Fauci had good intentions behind his statement. But it's very hard to regain trust after making misleading statements like the above.
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#636Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is the curve not flat? Yes, thanks to all the regulations. > How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? When returning to normal life, you want to curve to stay flat. So when a majority of people are vaccinated.
A majority of people ARE vaccinated in the US. And you're vaccinating over 1% more per day. Don't undersell yourselves.
36.3% are fully vaccinated. It is great progress. But it is not a majority.
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#637For some people the goalposts are moving faster than the speed of light. The goal was to flatten the curve. Remember that? Flatten. The. Curve. Is the curve not flat? How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? Do you want literally 0.000% risk?
You can't flatten the curve and then immediately throw away all caution and go back to the behavior that made the curve a geometric progression.
Half of the US population is vaccinated now. There's no going back to a geometric progression.
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#638Earlier quoted context omitted.
> China didn't even admit human to human transmission until mid January. Because it was even newer and more unknown at that point. Wuhan was in lockdown on the 23rd of January, so they had a pretty good idea by then. Meanwhile the rest of the world twiddled their thumbs and lost the opportunity to contain it. > They haven't even admitted when the outbreak started, which almost certainly wasn't November 2019 How do yo…
> How do you "admit" something unknown? Either way we know it couldn't have been too much before November/December, considering everything we know about how fast it spreads. Actually, this is not so clear. The evidence of community cases in November/December in e.g. France were not picked up at the time either. There is a phase were a new disease can fly completely under the radar, because we are still in a very slow…
It wasn't completely under the radar though. Doctors in China were thinking it was a "mere" SARS outbreak, which was fairly close to correct. However concern about public health was not the top priority of the govt.
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#639For some people the goalposts are moving faster than the speed of light. The goal was to flatten the curve. Remember that? Flatten. The. Curve. Is the curve not flat? How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? Do you want literally 0.000% risk?
The goal was to minimize casualties and human misery, to prevent what some countries are going through right now. Flatten the curve was a slogan.
> a slogan
So it was a white lie?
Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said
#640I find it interesting that the people who screamed "trust/listen to the CDC!" the loudest when the CDC's position was "everyone wear your mask and stay home as much as you can" are now the ones looking hardest for reasons to ignore/downplay/criticize the CDC's guidance.
One must evaluate the consequences of not following a particular piece of advice. If masks work, and you don’t wear one, you are potentially killing people and worsening the pandemic. If they aren’t needed, and you do wear one anyways, no harm has been done.
> If they aren’t needed, and you do force other people to wear it
There, corrected your typo for you.