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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#221

Post by livinginfear »

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID.

There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front page as we speak, critical of the American surveillance state. The comments exhibit a high degree of distrust towards the FBI, NSA, and other law-enforcement institutions. This degree of distrust seems almost absolute, yet the word of the CDC seems to be taken as gospel, despite clear hints of politicization of the COVID crisis on their behalf.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#222

Post by refurb »

As someone living in a country with very few cases of Covid suffice to say the govt is eagerly watching how this goes.

Since this country has good contact tracing they’ve identified multiple cases of fully vaccinated individuals getting infected (all mild so far) and transmitting it to unvaccinated individuals.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#223

Post by wikibob »

_y5hn wrote: post #184
josephcsible wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they didn't say "masks work but please save them for first responders until we get more." They said "masks don't work." You can argue they may have had a good reason to lie, but you can't argue that they didn't lie.

Medical specialists were concerned about incorrect usage of masks, which may increase risks of infection. Later studies contradicted those fears somewhat.

There was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that “improper wearing” could spread infection.

The problem is natural human bias to require higher levels of evidence to refute a practice than were required to institute it.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#224

Post by tryonenow »

scythe wrote: post #213
josephcsible wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just weigh "The risk and severity of bad effects from COVID" with "the risks and severity of the bad effects from the vaccine". You also need to factor in that the probability of an unvaccinated person getting COVID isn't 100%.

About 10-30% of Americans got COVID-19 so far, depending on how you tally the numbers. Of those, approximately 8% can be expected to experience long-term effects that disrupt their daily lives: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91270 >About 8% of all participants said at least one activity of daily living suffered long-term consequences, most commonly household chores. That puts the net risk for…

And how do you measure the mid to long term risk of a novel mRNA technology which is effectively in trial now, under emergency approval, when vaccines typically take years of safety evaluations? Particularly considering that there are preprints out with a mechanism identified for reverse transcription of the spike producing mRNA, which could result in chronic inflammatory disease in some proportion of recipients, given that other preprints claim that the spike protein itself is a general inflammatory agent and may be responsible for clotting/vascular symptoms.

Note that reverse transcription of COVID RNA also is a convenient explanation for post symptomatic positive tests as well as long COVID symptoms.

I think it's irresponsible to downplay the risks associated with this novel technology, especially when people still have the option of continuing to socially isolate to some degree.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#225

Post by cozzyd »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

The NSA and CDC are fundamentally different institutions. It does not make sense to treat them the same any more than it makes sense to treat NASA and the IRS the same...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#226

Post by lostcolony »

cgriswald wrote: post #210
stjohnswarts wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of curious why you waited so long? Most people I know who are refusing are Trump followers and simply believe it's all a hoax. Literally all of it.

I waited a couple weeks after it was open to everyone here. I waited because the only available vaccines were multiple hours away. I wasn’t going to make that trip twice (and potentially find out they screwed up their count or ruined doses or something) when I could wait a couple weeks and get one in my own town. Doubly so since I have less contact with strangers than most.

I was in a similar boat, but I went ahead and drove the couple hours out for the first shot...and then as supply opened up closer to me, scheduled my second 5 miles away. Totally understand the motivation to wait though; my wife got in due to some health stuff, and so there was more pressure for me to just hurry up and get it.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#227

Post by tehlike »

KoftaBob wrote: post #18
sacomo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is great. But still, vaccinated people shouldn't be told that they cannot get infected. There is this weird misconception floating around that just because we get vaccinated we are somehow immune to covid-19. That is a dangerous and misguided belief.

The CDC, FDA, governments, etc have said constantly that the vaccines have a 90-95% efficacy rate. Anyone who somehow interpreted that as "completely immune" has bad reading comprehension. This sounds like a strawman argument that you're making, I don't know where you're getting that there's a misconception of the vaccine equating to 100% immunity. No one said that.

You might find this more useful:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/of-fully-vaccinated-israelis-o...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#228

Post by cgriswald »

baby wrote: post #175
generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

I traveled a bit during this pandemic and in Arizona it’s like the virus didn’t exist. Nobody was wearing a mask, nobody. Even indoor. Even the waiters. I’m back in SF now and everybody is wearing the mask. Everybody. The adults, the children, Even the vaccinated people. Yesterday the waiter asked me if we could put back our mask so she could hand us our plate. Country of extremes. I feel like there’s no going back t…

We had a lady on Nextdoor lauding her ability to go outside without a mask and being able to smile at a friend from afar now that she’s vaccinated. Masks haven’t been required outside when social distancing for most of the pandemic, vaccinated or not. There’s reasons for wearing masks (or not), but the decision to wear one (or not) typically has nothing to do with reason.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#229

Post by nradov »

robbrown451 wrote: post #123
RobertRoberts wrote: post #57

Is living the healthiest life you can live not the best option in every circumstance? It seems society as a whole wants a quick fix, no matter what the problem is or the consequences from a cure.

Sure. And living the healthiest life can include getting vaccinated and wearing a mask. Are you suggesting we just eat good foods and exercise, and that alone will protect us from dying from COVID? I can see an argument that lockdown has had consequences. Mask wearing too, but to a lessor degree. But the vaccine? I'm not seeing serious consequences other than the cost to get it out there. Seems like a win-win, once i…

It's not a guarantee, but eating good foods and exercising protects most people from dying from COVID-19. Even among the the older cohort, most of the dead have had co-morbid conditions such as obesity. Relatively few patients with normal blood sugar levels and insulin responses have died.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#230

Post by berkeley101101 »

generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

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