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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

211–220 of 925 posts

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#211
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is only saying that if everyone is vaccinated then it is safe. Right, but like the previous poster said, we have no way of verifying. Maybe people do, but I don't think everyone carries their vaccination card with them, so how are establishments going to verify? They'll probably ask, and accept the answer. And as people are starting to point out, the unvaccinated will just lie. My point is that the CDC must have…

Instead of businesses having to verify, it would make more sense for the county or municipality to establish a policy based upon the prevailing positivity rate. If there's a low level of infection in the community, indoor masks are at the wearer's discretion, if there's a high level, indoor masks are mandatory. This would also establish a causal link between a getting vaccinated and helping to keep the community open…

Your suggestion is contrary to the CDC's guidance. It doesn't say that it's only safe for vaccinated people to stop wearing masks if the prevailing positivity rate is low.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is responsible in the slightest to go to a crowded movie theater, unvaccinated, only wearing a paper mask. Even more so when a safe an effective vaccine is available. I understand your point, but this road goes both ways.

Do you think that no children under 12 should be going to movie theaters today? Because none of them are allowed to be vaccinated yet.

I would think it is fine. There have been a total of 340 Covid related deaths for ages 0-18.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk and severity of bad effects from COVID exceed the risks and severity of the bad effects from the vaccine across all age categories. It is a low-risk, higher-reward proposition for everyone. And even if all the virus does is fry your sense of smell you're better off with a few days of influenza-like symptoms from the vaccines.

You can't just weigh "The risk and severity of bad effects from COVID" with "the risks and severity of the bad effects from the vaccine". You also need to factor in that the probability of an unvaccinated person getting COVID isn't 100%.

About 10-30% of Americans got COVID-19 so far, depending on how you tally the numbers. Of those, approximately 8% can be expected to experience long-term effects that disrupt their daily lives: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91270

>About 8% of all participants said at least one activity of daily living suffered long-term consequences, most commonly household chores.

That puts the net risk for non-vaccinated people at no less than 0.8%.

By contrast, the incidence of blood clots from the AstraZeneca vaccine, which caused its ouster, was about 0.001%. That's a factor of 800 in favor of vaccination with the worst of the vaccines.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children can't get vaccinated yet, though, and I do still want to protect them. It's why my wife and I, though fully vaccinated, haven't totally returned to normal, since our toddler and infant are still susceptible.

For children, COVID is less dangerous than the seasonal flu, and we've never mandated masks or vaccines to protect children from that.

Source for this??

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#215
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just weigh "The risk and severity of bad effects from COVID" with "the risks and severity of the bad effects from the vaccine". You also need to factor in that the probability of an unvaccinated person getting COVID isn't 100%.

About 10-30% of Americans got COVID-19 so far, depending on how you tally the numbers. Of those, approximately 8% can be expected to experience long-term effects that disrupt their daily lives: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91270 >About 8% of all participants said at least one activity of daily living suffered long-term consequences, most commonly household chores. That puts the net risk for…

Those numbers don't factor in age or preexisting conditions at all.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#216

I’ve been in the US throughout this pandemic, and I’ve had to take it extremely seriously because of vulnerable people I live with. I’m glad to be vaccinated and for my life (and my family’s) to be returning to normal. I expect that I’ll continue wearing a mask from time to time even years from now if it becomes socially acceptable, because I like both the anonymity, and the wonders it does for my seasonal allergies.…

> * Right now, not doing so is a strong social signal that you’re a special kind of belligerent asshole that probably hasn’t been vaccinated, and wants to pick a fight... *

Man, I'm sorry, but you read like the belligerent one here, judging people from afar. I wear a mask when possible (and will also likely continue to do so, despite being fully vaccinated) but this self-righteous attitude I think is an enormous part of the cultural problem.

I have always tried to follow a blend of cautious common sense and the science here, so my policy throughout the pandemic has always been - Always wear a mask when indoors (other than at home or in my car alone) - Wear a mask outdoors when it's difficult to remain less than 10 (not even 6) feet from other people. If I need to pass someone on a sidewalk, or someone's approaching me at an intersection, I put my mask on. And I make sure to cover my nose. And even with the mask on, I will usually opt to go into the street or otherwise create distance.

Despite this, I have been shouted at by people more than 30 feet away across a street and from people driving cars(!) about walking outdoors without a mask at times, when nobody has been anywhere near me. I'm sorry but this is just asinine. There has to be some time when it's ok to not be wearing a mask when you're not at home. I wear glasses and am otherwise visually impaired (I have an autoimmune disease which inflames my retinas). When I wear a mask, it tends to fog my glasses and make my vision even worse, sometimes dangerously so (I've been nearly hit by bicycles riding on the sidewalks tens of times - you can't hear them coming when they decide to come up behind you on the sidewalk despite the presence of the perfectly good bike lane) If I wore a mask while driving my reduced vision would make me many many times more dangerous than an unvaccinated person not wearing a mask outdoors, and yet I see this behavior all the time - even when the driver is alone in their car!

Furthermore, one of the times I was shouted at, I actually had a painful cut on my face, and wearing the mask aggravated it. I still would wear the mask if I was in a store or actually anywhere near someone outdoors, but that didn't stop someone from berating me from across a four lane street!

I keep seeing these self-righteous claims throughout these threads that "there is no reason not to wear a mask". Frankly I think these folks are mentally lazy - I learned in my first philosophy course that it's dangerous to use any kind of universal quantifier in your reasoning. I also learned that it's better to show empathy if possible, or at least extend the benefit of the doubt, but for some reason this pandemic and the politics seem to have completely shut any nuance and / or compassion off.

On top of that, you admit further down in this thread that you would just choose not to engage someone you didn't know. I'm sorry, but that means that you shouldn't complain about them, then. It doesn't seem like you've given yourself any hope of arriving at a more charitable conclusion than "this person is a belligerent asshole".

Ugh. Apologies for the tone. I'm not anti-mask, but I think this stopped being about the masks a long time ago, and the fact that we can't seem to collectively recognize it is incredibly frustrating.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For children, COVID is less dangerous than the seasonal flu, and we've never mandated masks or vaccines to protect children from that.

Source for this??

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

> The risk of complications for healthy children is higher for flu compared to COVID-19.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer and Moderna are both effective to within the mid-high 90's, was my understanding.

the thing that scares me is that Pfizer is "only" ~75% against B.1.351. I'm not worried right now, and I've relaxed a ton since before, but I'm nervous that B.1.351 and other vaccine-resistant strains will rise to prominence once enough people are vaccinated.

The US is solving that by not getting enough people vaccinated :/

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#219
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that the continual dehumanization of people into creatures with eyes, hair, and without emotions is a downside to wearing a mask in public? A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropr…

You can easily tell whether someone is smiling or not underneath a mask, and I think most people have learned to "smile with their eyes" to make it even more obvious. It's not that big a deal.

At the start of all this, I saw someone point out that in Japan, where mask-wearing is more of a thing, their emoticon for smiling is ^_^ while in the US :) is used. One emphasizes the eyes, still visible with a mask on, the other the mouth. (Note: I am not an emoticon expert, let alone a cross-cultural one)

Given the number of women I've seen happy that no one has told them to smile during this pandemic, I guess a lot of folks in the US don't know how to tell when eyes are smiling.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#220
How cynical is it to question whether or not this was timed at least in part to bolster economic outlook in the face of the market shrinkage this week over inflation fears?

(Experts have been asking for more explicit guidance from the CDC for months now.)

Edit: for reference, up until this point, the CDC has not even been willing to concede the safety of outdoor activities: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing/outdoor-covid-tr...

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