Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 925 posts

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#421

Post by hunter-2 »

This is a bad idea and one that is going to backfire. The Indian variant of Covid is already spread out to over 44 countries, and although we don't have conclusive evidence yet, it is being suspected that the current crop of vaccines are not very effective againt this.

In the past one month alone, more than a 100 medics (who are all fully vaccinated), have died - albeit due to a different vaccine and higher viral load in their workplace.

It's a little premature to ask for masks to go off

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#422

Post by cromka »

koonsolo wrote: post #413
thrwhizzle wrote: post #240

For some people the goalposts are moving faster than the speed of light. The goal was to flatten the curve. Remember that? Flatten. The. Curve. Is the curve not flat? How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? Do you want literally 0.000% risk?

> Is the curve not flat? Yes, thanks to all the regulations. > How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? When returning to normal life, you want to curve to stay flat. So when a majority of people are vaccinated.

> Yes, thanks to all the regulations.

No. That was months ago. What about those with vaccination or reconvalescence immunity? Those don't affect the curve?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#423

Post by bonzini »

flukus wrote: post #370
Rebelgecko wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

> they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc Everyone seems to also forget that a lot of this took place when they wrongly thought surface transmission was the main vector. The bigger problem was the delay in recognizing aerosol transmission, Chinese scientists cottoned on to this very early but the CDC and WHO dr…

> Chinese scientists cottoned on to this very early

China didn't even admit human to human transmission until mid January.

They haven't even admitted when the outbreak started, which almost certainly wasn't November 2019 since there are suspect cases in Europe already at the beginning of December, of people that had never been in Wuhan.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#424

Post by wikibob »

hcurtiss wrote: post #265
wikibob wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your glasses fog up from wearing a mask, your mask is ineffective. Get a better mask that actually seals around your face.

Like what kind of mask? In heavy industry or manufacturing environments, I can assure you that nearly all are wearing N95s or surgical masks, and they all cause real issues with safety glasses fogging. It's been a huge problem, alleviated some with the Uvex wipes.

I find the Honeywell consumer mask comfortable for daily low risk wear.

https://ppe.honeywell.com/

If I’m going to be in an enclosed space with lots of anti maskers for a longer period of time I use a 3M elastomer mask with replaceable p100 filters. It’s less comfortable though.

Also to be exceptionally clear, if you are wearing an N95 mask and it is fogging your glasses, it is NOT sealing properly. That condensation is coming from air that’s escaping out the top.

KN94 masks with ear loops are rather less effective as they can’t pull tight enough on the face to seal.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#425

Post by cko »

paganel wrote: post #408
throwkeep wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a publicly visible political statement and tribal signaling. What the MAGA hat was for the right, the mask is for the left.

It's crazy how politicised the mask has become in the States. Over here in my parts of Eastern-Europe the government just announced yesterday that starting tomorrow (Saturday) the mask won't be mandatory anymore in almost all outdoor spaces for everyone, a statement which was received with joy and relief by almost everyone, no matter their political orientation.

Ah, Romania. Though this country does seem to have one of the lowest vaccination rates.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#426

Post by tarsinge »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

I’m not American but reason to not blindly trust the institutions you list to act in your best interest are unfortunately factual. What comes to my mind when I hear:

- FBI: Hoover

- NSA: Snowden

- Police: Floyd

For the CDC I know only of the recommendation to not wear a mask at the beginning of the pandemic, and it’s debatable if it was a lie given the knowledge at the time (many other health agencies did the same recommendation in other countries at the time).

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#427

Post by clairity »

cfeduke wrote: post #348
kiawe_fire wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

The logical decision here involves civic duty. I certainly fit into the low risk category, etc., but I also exist in society and am a willing participant, and as such have certain responsibilities to other people in my community.

vaccination is probably the most broadly effective, but there are many ways, big and small, to limit the risks of transmission, so don't fall for the fascist line of thinking that there is only one true way, especially when an understanding of the risks (airborne is highly unlikely) and effectiveness of the various mitigations (no, you never needed masks outside unless tightly packed for extended time) is so woefully lacking.

and civic duty is voting, educating yourself on policy issues, obeying reasonable laws, and tolerating and even celebrating differences of perspective and opinion. it's about participating effectively in our democratic republic. it doesn't encompass every possible responsibility to every other human, like the term 'moral duty' might.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#428

Post by ddxxdd »

cycomanic wrote: post #374
harry8 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please also note it is unnecessary to do any additional analysis to describe the example cited as a "lie." We know it was a deliberate lie because the then head of the CDC has said so [1] - unless he was lying about claiming he was lying there's not much doubt in that case. The CDC lie when it suits them isn't something that's really debatable. Does it matter that they lied? This is the proposition that can be debate…

I know this gets repeated a lot, but that doesn't make it more true. Show me the quote where he said "we lied about masks", and "we changed our message about masks" doesn't count. The reality is that the knowledge about Covid changed significantly in march/April last year. In particular the understanding about unsymptomatic spread lead to a significant change of thinking. That makes sense, if the virus only spreads f…

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0]

And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020):

“There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1]

And at another point (6/15/2020):

"[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N-95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply." [1]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYyH4N8VXvA

[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dr-fauci-made-the-coronavi...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#429

Post by flukus »

bonzini wrote: post #423
flukus wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc Everyone seems to also forget that a lot of this took place when they wrongly thought surface transmission was the main vector. The bigger problem was the delay in recognizing aerosol transmission, Chinese scientists cottoned on to this very early but the CDC and WHO dr…

> Chinese scientists cottoned on to this very early China didn't even admit human to human transmission until mid January. They haven't even admitted when the outbreak started, which almost certainly wasn't November 2019 since there are suspect cases in Europe already at the beginning of December, of people that had never been in Wuhan.

> China didn't even admit human to human transmission until mid January.

Because it was even newer and more unknown at that point. Wuhan was in lockdown on the 23rd of January, so they had a pretty good idea by then. Meanwhile the rest of the world twiddled their thumbs and lost the opportunity to contain it.

> They haven't even admitted when the outbreak started, which almost certainly wasn't November 2019

How do you "admit" something unknown? Either way we know it couldn't have been too much before November/December, considering everything we know about how fast it spreads.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#430

Post by ajmadesc »

google234123 wrote: post #340
greesil wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal was to minimize casualties and human misery, to prevent what some countries are going through right now. Flatten the curve was a slogan.

Lock downs also cause huge misery. Recessions are not victimless.

What recession?
Post reply on HN