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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#571

Post by Xplune13 »

scrollaway wrote: post #553
dalyons wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would choose what is happening now in India instead?

What's happening in India is a culmination of immense population density, dismissing and ignoring of recommendations by the government, dissemination of propaganda, massive incompetence, etc etc It's not a binary choice. There is a huge amount of room between the two. I believe you know that, so think about whether your comment was made in good faith.

The situation in India is the result of all the things you mentioned + recklessness of people. You have to see it first hand that how reckless people acted in large cities. They were acting like this covid thing doesn't even exist and that is one crucial point.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#572

Post by stjohnswarts »

flukus wrote: post #549
cycomanic wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you "admit" something unknown? Either way we know it couldn't have been too much before November/December, considering everything we know about how fast it spreads. Actually, this is not so clear. The evidence of community cases in November/December in e.g. France were not picked up at the time either. There is a phase were a new disease can fly completely under the radar, because we are still in a very slow…

If that's the case then China doesn't even have anything to admit, it could have come Frome anywhere.

Everything points at Wuhan currently. That’s not even a question at this point

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#573

Post by _nosewings_ »

estaseuropano wrote: post #269
livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

The mistrust runs in both directions (although the timbre is different). I believe that the CDC has had nothing but the best of intentions throughout the pandemic, but it's clear that they don't really trust US citizens enough to say what they really think. They see us through the lens of management; e.g., "How do we manage these people?"

Now, it's perhaps inevitable that they would use that lens, but it seems like it's the only lens they use.

Perhaps they're even right -- perhaps the average US citizen really is selfish and lacking in independent critical thinking skills, and perhaps we can't be trusted with the truth. But it means that anyone who knows better is constantly trying to read between the lines.

I blame the pervasive PR culture in the US, as well as basic stuff like a shit education system.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#574

Post by scrollaway »

kelnos wrote: post #522
vmception wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed politically? I’m talking about major markets like California opening up, not whatever happens already in Georgia or Florida. So I think these more risk averse jurisdictions will also have a few businesses that try to maintain independent restrictions without support from the state, and I think they will have lost tolerance from their entire population or market base by then (a few weeks from now). This is n…

I think the parent's main objection is that you seem to be showing glee at the prospect of a business failing because it shows an overabundance of caution even after the state no longer requires it. That's... kinda petty, no? Especially when wearing a mask inside a store or whatever isn't a particularly difficult thing to do.

Not parent but although i disagree with them, i kinda get where they're coming from.

Some businesses give in to security theater and it is immensely frustrating. For example here in Belgium some shops force you to take a trolley even if you just want to buy a single item and have your own bag. They do this "because COVID". So what happens? A pile up of people at the entrance trying to move caddies over, leading to far more risk there than there otherwise would be if you left people to their own device.

Our swimming pools are open, but they closed the showers "because COVID". So what happens? People are gross, get in the water right away, don't soap up or whatever, and it's far less clean/healthy than it would be for no good reason.

Overabundance of caution is not always a good excuse.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#575

Post by kelnos »

robbrown451 wrote: post #145

I wish it was common and expected that those that want to go maskless, wear their vaccination cards around their necks. Not a requirement, but just having it be common enough that if you do, people will know what it means. Here in San Francisco, more than 50% of people are fully vaccinated, but everyone is still wearing masks, even outdoors. I don't think it is just that SF hasn't changed the mandate, it is more abou…

I somewhat feel the same way: I expect I'll continue to wear a mask in public until social signals start telling me it's ok to leave it off. I don't fear any kind of social retribution, but continuing to wear a mask is a very small, easy thing I can do to help make others feel comfortable, others who have no idea if I'm vaccinated or not.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#576

Post by tinus_hn »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #516
cout wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The director of the CDC during most of the pandemic was Robert Redfield. Dr. Fauci is director of the NIH, so his statements are not relevant to the credibility of the CDC. In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective", as it keeps getting paraphrased. The latter is obviously absurd, as there were numerous studies on the effec…

Fauci, and way too many Medical Doctors, seemed guenuinly confused over the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent the spread of he Covid virus. A lot medical professionals were claiming the average person wearing a mask will make things worse by putting it on ineffectively. I heard one doctor say, "All it takes is one virus particle to become infected. I haven't heard any doctor talk about Viral Loads, even now. My p…

If you’re in the ‘I just don’t know?’ category, how is it defensible to force others to adhere to your apparently unfounded strategies?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#577

Post by stjohnswarts »

disabled wrote: post #558
cmckn wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ton of Americans think of it as a lesser of two evils; because many (most?) Americans have the luxury of being comfortable. They don’t really think about politics, they don’t really have policy wants/needs. It’s just sensationalism on Facebook and celebrity on Instagram. It’s more about sports-team tribalism than participating in a society. At the risk of sounding morose, I don’t know where we go from here. Everyon…

Here is a good read on where it goes: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html All I know is that there is no way that I am going to be physically in the US for the next presidential election(s), if there is a neoliberal political candidate in that election.

You’re not worried about neoliberalism than Trumpism? Lol

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#578

Post by maxerickson »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #220

How cynical is it to question whether or not this was timed at least in part to bolster economic outlook in the face of the market shrinkage this week over inflation fears? (Experts have been asking for more explicit guidance from the CDC for months now.) Edit: for reference, up until this point, the CDC has not even been willing to concede the safety of outdoor activities: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing…

A straightforward explanation is that cases are going down even in places that had large recent outbreaks like Michigan and the communication about masking is frequently cited by people that are on the fence about getting vaccinated.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#579

Post by tinus_hn »

tshaddox wrote: post #498
ddxxdd wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…

> “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” Isn’t this defensible if it was indeed true that there was a temporary shortage of masks for health care workers?

No, because ultimately the lie will be exposed and then your credibility is (rightly!) done for.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#580

Post by anoncake »

scrollaway wrote: post #565
anoncake wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing children (or anyone really) to undergo a medical procedure for the benefit of other people is evil.

What the fuck? You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right? It's not evil, it's common sense. COVID may be the first pandemic you've lived through/remembered, but it's not the first pandemic, and there are far more dangerous diseases out there we don't want coming back. I was vaccinated as a child of things i am still immune to today.

> You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right?

Yes. So they don't get sick, i.e. it's for their own benefit.

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