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Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

nih.gov

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Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#251

Post by p49k »

kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #224
p49k wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems incredibly selfish to force vulnerable people into isolation because some people allow themselves to get absorbed into conspiracy theories about a harmless vaccine. Requiring certain vaccines for travel has been something that has existed for decades and was never controversial.

It's not a harmless vaccine. You want to mandate vaccinating people who are at no risk from the disease, and expose them to unnecessary risks. And that means children - all to protect sick people who for the most part are already isolated. They are in hospitals or sick people homes, where you can protect them in other ways. Also the comparison with other vaccines does not automatically make sense. All vaccines are no…

First of all it’s entirely false that it’s just “sick and old” people affected; there are also children and young adults with immune disorders who can live somewhat normal lives today because of minor sacrifices from others such as vaccinations. Secondly, sick and old people are also human beings who deserve consideration.

We mandate that people take all kinds of minor risks in life; that’s always been part of being in a society.

The reason vaccine advice is conservative is because anti-intellectualism and belief in conspiracy theories has gone off the charts and politicians now have to coddle these people. It’s a collective mental illness.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#252

Post by tomp »

baq wrote: post #123
mssundaram wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did this themselves. Fauci, CDC and WHO constantly have gone back and forth between each other and themselves.

scientific approach requires changing your mind in presence of new evidence and when there's not enough evidence, there will be differences in opinions. duh.

Scientific approach requires you not to proclaim something as “true” if it’s likely that new information would change that.

The 5-sigma approach used in physics is science. The “no evidence of human-to-human transmission” used by the WHO isn’t science.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#253

Post by mns »

thwarted wrote: post #186
radu_floricica wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, but I'd really really like to avoid giving the impression of... glee? "Look at those unwashed unvaccinated Trump supporters, so good they'll be forced to do things our ways now!". I'm not saying you're doing it, I'm just piggybacking on your comment. I'm pretty much a high-modernist when it comes to vaccines - I think that having governments build sewage and create vaccines go into the same…

This is getting stupid, if it wasn't already. Requiring vaccination is "curtailing liberties". Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is "curtailing liberties". No shit. One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate. One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don't want to do either of these things. That's the price of admission of ge…

> No one is giving up any "liberties" by getting vaccinated, but it's more likely they are acquiring liberties by getting vaccinated. At the very least it's the liberty of reducing the risk of dying.

As a person waiting to get his booster shot next week, I find this quite concerning. Those liberties we had and were taken away from us. Nobody cares about people dying. I am sitting now next to my mom who 1 month ago was diagnosed with terminal secondary cancer after all her check-ups were cancelled last year. So yeah, nobody gives a damn about anything else than seeming virtuos and better than others online. But no one cares any more about any other diseases or other people that are suffering, it’s all social signaling for the rich and well off people to show how moral they are, all while their lifestyle is supported by those that can’t afford to have any liberties.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#254

Post by nopzor »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #236
lazyjones wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> international travel was some kind of libertarian utopia before covid. There are a lot of things that restrict your ability to travel, and vaccinations are one of the least problematic. You are obviously not referring to the EU, where, within Schengen, international travel was a libertarian utopia and one of the main reasons this bureaucratic construct had so many supporters despite the downsides.

> You are obviously not referring to the EU, where, within Schengen, international travel was a libertarian utopia For, and only for, EU citizens. Which is a good start at utopianising travel, but not complete.

once you're inside schengen, traveling between schengen countries is seamless and magical, whether or not you are an EU citizen.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#255

Post by dragonwriter »

tomp wrote: post #247
ianai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consensus I’m hearing from epidemiologists is the mRNA vaccines should offer better immunity than infection. So it would seem the 8 month for immunity after infection should be a lower bound for the vaccine effectiveness.

The consensus one year ago was that immunity doesn’t last longer than 6 months (hint: it does). I’ve learned to mostly disregard “expert opinion”, especially when they’re talking straight out of their asses as in this case (we haven’t had the vaccine long enough yet to have any kind of experimentally informed view on this topic).

> The consensus one year ago was that immunity doesn’t last longer than 6 months

No, it wasn’t.

The consensus was that it was uncertain the degree and duration of immunity conferred because the available evidence was insufficient and contradictory.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#256

Post by kofddfjdfdfdff »

piva00 wrote: post #235
kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate" You make it sound as if there is a fixed, god given set of rules for society. That's not the case. Societies rules are constantly being negotiated by society. So your argument is not an argument at all. It boils down to "you have to follow the rules because you have to follow the rules".

Following societies' rules is the basic principle of the social contract, I recommend reading a little about it starting from Hobbes' Leviathan.

But who draws up the social contract?

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#257

Post by kofddfjdfdfdff »

thwarted wrote: post #232
kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate" You make it sound as if there is a fixed, god given set of rules for society. That's not the case. Societies rules are constantly being negotiated by society. So your argument is not an argument at all. It boils down to "you have to follow the rules because you have to follow the rules".

Those requirements are welcome to be negotiated. But negotiation often isn't occurring in good faith. There's way too much flat-earth- holocaust-denial- style arguments from those who "just don't want to be told what to do". Getting vaccinated doesn't take away someone's liberties; "I don't want to be told what to do" is not an argument against vaccination. Many of these people are just making noise, and it's getting…

Mandating medical interventions is pretty much taking away someone's liberties. And your opinions about other people's opinions are also irrelevant as an argument.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#258

Post by gls2ro »

tomp wrote: post #241
gls2ro wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should be the european way? I ask this as I understand your concern about politics forcing personal decisions, yet I am not finding a pragmatic workable solution to the current crisis.

As exemplified by the UK, enough people will want to get vaccinated to reach herd immunity. Then you don’t need to care about / oppress those who don’t want to / can’t get vaccinated.

I would like a lot to believe that this is how it will be in all EU states, but I am not sure.

As far as I can see the vaccination rhythm is decreasing in some countries and it is not even approaching 50% of population. It might be because of the back and forth with Astra Zeneca the EU did or it might be because EU is pretty big as in diverse with respect of culture, set of beliefs, approach to health …

Anyhow everyone is demanding EU to do something so their response will not be “wait so that everybody wants to be vaccinated”. Also because being that big means that heard immunity will not be reached.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#259

Post by lbotos »

bserge wrote: post #223
walterbell wrote: post #119

For those in the EU, the upcoming travel pass will cover three categories of people: vaccinated, PCR-tested negative, and recovered (i.e. positive antibody test of immunity), https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/all-your-questions-on-... > For travellers who have recovered from the virus: date of the positive test result, an issuer of the certificate, date of issuance, validity date The bureaucratic stumbling block…

Sometimes I think I'm living in a parallel universe. I know people who travel regularly and no one says anything to them. No quarantine, nothing. Most people on the streets here in Germany give zero fucks, groups of 5-10, no masks (even though there's a curfew between 10pm-5am due to an increase in cases). And I traveled all the way from Moldova to Germany by car. No one, and I mean no one ever asked for a Covid test…

I'm pretty sure it's because you traveled by car -- which means the odds that you were exposing your fellow travelers was limited to the people that would get in a car with you.

I've traveled 2 times now by air from NYC -> London during Covid.

Last year, a 14 day quarantine on both sides, and on the NYC side, a phone call everyday to make sure I was quarantining.

This year on the London side, a 10 day quarantine, 1 negative test before flying, and 2 at home tests while quarantining, with a phone call everyday to confirm. I also got hassled at the airport because I didn't print out the day 2 and 8 receipt, just included the code on my passenger locator form under penalty of perjury.

So, the UK by air does care I suspect because of the increased exposure risk.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#260

Post by navjack27 »

Guthur wrote: post #227
Tade0 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aim is to prevent the virus from clogging up the healthcare system. Countries which vaccinated all the citizens they could(e.g. Israel) already achieved that. One dose of the Pfizer vaccine costs €16, while AstraZeneca's is less than €3. This is affordable by any measure.

Astra is hard sell to people under 50, and is looking less effective against variants. The cost of Pfizer is a lot more than the per shot cost, you need highly specialised storage and distribution due to the low temperature requirements.

I'm in the US and I got my Pfizer shots at my local small hospital. They had storage because they have a pharmacy. Seems like an easy thing to just have, ya know. It was free to me. I'm 32. Was such an easy process to get. Big shrug
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