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Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

nih.gov

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Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#231

Post by TameAntelope »

Izkata wrote: post #69
TameAntelope wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I've been reading about vaccine passports include some reference to having a positive COVID test more than X period of time in the past as an equivalent to a vaccine. That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both, so at least for now I'm okay even if we did only push for vaccines-as-validation.

> That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both If recovery grants equivalent immunity, there's not only no reason to get a vaccine, there's reason to not get any vaccine: However rare complications are from the vaccines, there's no reason to risk them.

I would argue the opposite, and in fact this comment convinces me a positive test should not be relevant to determining immunity.

A single positive result means so little, giving someone with your thinking that excuse not to get vaccinated just isn’t worth it.

You “risk it” for others, not yourself.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#232

Post by thwarted »

kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #221
thwarted wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting stupid, if it wasn't already. Requiring vaccination is "curtailing liberties". Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is "curtailing liberties". No shit. One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate. One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don't want to do either of these things. That's the price of admission of ge…

"One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate" You make it sound as if there is a fixed, god given set of rules for society. That's not the case. Societies rules are constantly being negotiated by society. So your argument is not an argument at all. It boils down to "you have to follow the rules because you have to follow the rules".

Those requirements are welcome to be negotiated.

But negotiation often isn't occurring in good faith. There's way too much flat-earth- holocaust-denial- style arguments from those who "just don't want to be told what to do". Getting vaccinated doesn't take away someone's liberties; "I don't want to be told what to do" is not an argument against vaccination. Many of these people are just making noise, and it's getting old.

I'm not saying there aren't good arguments for not getting vaccinated, but it falls flat when those same people got vaccinated in order to attend public school or have state issued IDs or use passports or will bitch about a loved one dying because they failed to get vaccinated.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#233

Post by Tade0 »

Guthur wrote: post #227
Tade0 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aim is to prevent the virus from clogging up the healthcare system. Countries which vaccinated all the citizens they could(e.g. Israel) already achieved that. One dose of the Pfizer vaccine costs €16, while AstraZeneca's is less than €3. This is affordable by any measure.

Astra is hard sell to people under 50, and is looking less effective against variants. The cost of Pfizer is a lot more than the per shot cost, you need highly specialised storage and distribution due to the low temperature requirements.

Not true. People generally prefer Pfizer, but will take whatever just to be done with it.

I had Astra, so did several people from my social circle. Hell, some took JJ being aware of its level of effectiveness.

The vaccines need to be stored at a low temperature - that's it. I doubt it adds more than €1 to the price.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#234

Post by aww_dang »

hanselot wrote: post #208
aww_dang wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source is CBS news. >"I haven't bothered to read, but I'm dismissing it as a conspiracy theory" I hope you can appreciate the problems with that reasoning. Yes, there are costs involved in data collection. If the data is valuable, organizations will foot those costs. We've seen this in the tech sphere. Why is it hard to imagine it in the health/biosecurity realm?

Because he is paid to shill that view. Want proof? Go say the same thing somewhere else, on another public forum, you will get the same script (variations of it).

Even if this were true, the accusation only derails the conversation.

We are attempting to discuss the topic. Dismissing the speaker out of hand because he sounds a certain way isn't helpful. Similarly, dismissing an article because it "sounds like conspiracy theory" isn't helpful.

There's a bit irony there.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#235

Post by piva00 »

kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #221
thwarted wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting stupid, if it wasn't already. Requiring vaccination is "curtailing liberties". Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is "curtailing liberties". No shit. One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate. One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don't want to do either of these things. That's the price of admission of ge…

"One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate" You make it sound as if there is a fixed, god given set of rules for society. That's not the case. Societies rules are constantly being negotiated by society. So your argument is not an argument at all. It boils down to "you have to follow the rules because you have to follow the rules".

Following societies' rules is the basic principle of the social contract, I recommend reading a little about it starting from Hobbes' Leviathan.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#236

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

lazyjones wrote: post #164
stormbrew wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The precedent has been set for a long time now already, and it likely saves a lot of lives. https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf This isn't rocket science. I don't know where people get this idea that international travel was some kind of libertarian utopia before covid. There are a lot of things that restrict your ability to travel, and vaccinations are one of the least problematic.

> international travel was some kind of libertarian utopia before covid. There are a lot of things that restrict your ability to travel, and vaccinations are one of the least problematic. You are obviously not referring to the EU, where, within Schengen, international travel was a libertarian utopia and one of the main reasons this bureaucratic construct had so many supporters despite the downsides.

> You are obviously not referring to the EU, where, within Schengen, international travel was a libertarian utopia

For, and only for, EU citizens. Which is a good start at utopianising travel, but not complete.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#237

Post by Buttons840 »

MAGZine wrote: post #121
StavrosK wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably easy for someone who knows what to look for, but I wouldn't even know where to start googling.

i literally selected "SARS-CoV-1 still have a strong immune response almost 20" from OP's questioning comment, right clicked, selected "Search Google for..." and the same article was the first result. Nature is a reputable publication. I think this boils down to internet folks assuming their conversational partner has the same level of knowledge they do, don't believe the other party, and then ask for proof, rather t…

As the parent comment mentioned, there are "both sides" out there, making it difficult and unreliable to expect people to educate themselves.

If someone is asking for citations in bad faith, they probably have "educated themselves" already, just with the wrong education. If someone believes a conspiracy, and they "educate themselves" as you propose, they will probably come to believe even more strongly in the conspiracies.

Half the time people ask for citations they probably believe the claim and just want more confirmation. If I ask for citation it's often because I want the authors personal opinion on what sources are good. I don't want to Google, I want to discuss things with people, that's why I'm in a comment section. And, of course, being a comment section sometimes people just stop talking, whether intentionally or not.

I don't like to see people who ask for sources be treated as though they're the bad guys. I'd rather see more focus on sources than less. If you don't want to be asked for sources say "I think...", but don't be upset if you say "studies have shown..." and somebody asks what studies you're referring to.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#238

Post by cycomanic »

lazyjones wrote: post #164
stormbrew wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The precedent has been set for a long time now already, and it likely saves a lot of lives. https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf This isn't rocket science. I don't know where people get this idea that international travel was some kind of libertarian utopia before covid. There are a lot of things that restrict your ability to travel, and vaccinations are one of the least problematic.

> international travel was some kind of libertarian utopia before covid. There are a lot of things that restrict your ability to travel, and vaccinations are one of the least problematic. You are obviously not referring to the EU, where, within Schengen, international travel was a libertarian utopia and one of the main reasons this bureaucratic construct had so many supporters despite the downsides.

So you didn't have to follow road rules when travelling by car? You could bring weapons on board of planes when flying?

Seems like you had to follow rules regulations when travelling before, so explain to me what is the exact difference now?

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#239

Post by ithkuil »

Closi wrote: post #204
ithkuil wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yup, that’s the point. I don't understand. If we know that people who recovered from covid are effectively as if they were vaccinated, why do they have to wait until they have the privilege to be in the lucky age group to receive the vaccine before they can go visit a loved one they don't see for more than one year? Are you assuming that everyone in the world is living in a privileged country where people as young…

You don't actually have a birth-given right to enter all other countries - which might be a surprise to people with good passports that effectively used to let them travel anywhere (try entering the USA with a passport from Pakistan or Iraq and see how it compares with a Swiss passport!). This is about what other countries want to restrict in terms of non-citizen's entering the country without isolation. These are co…

Sure. But if the bar to entry is "scientifically proven immunity", then both natural immunity and the one induced by vaccinations are reasonable bars to entry.

You may say "ok, we don't have yet the beurocratic apparatus to accept natural immunity in our protocols and for the time being we're going to focus on vaccinated people, sorry".

You may not say "we want to force you to vaccinate, that's the whole point, duh"

That's a dangerous attitude. It feeds vaccine skeptics or denialists, who use this attitude as a proof that there is as much dogma in the "official scientific community" who are in big pharma's pockets. They are a bunch of nuts, but they are infecting otherwise reasonable people I know all around me.

Let's avoid setting up official policies and discourse tones which effective feed the trolls.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#240

Post by spicybright »

sharken wrote: post #122
walterbell wrote: post #119

For those in the EU, the upcoming travel pass will cover three categories of people: vaccinated, PCR-tested negative, and recovered (i.e. positive antibody test of immunity), https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/all-your-questions-on-... > For travellers who have recovered from the virus: date of the positive test result, an issuer of the certificate, date of issuance, validity date The bureaucratic stumbling block…

Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them. The travel pass is a horrible idea, that effectively will force many to be vaccinated. That should not be the european way.

Your freedom ends where mine begins. Walking around with covid effects my freedom to walk around.
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