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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#161

Post by Pyramus »

toast0 wrote: post #152
loxias wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. Do others not hear the ambulances? Do they not see the overflow from the hospitals? Are the dead bodies some sort of elaborate deep fake?? Has t…

> WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time.…

> I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells.

These events sadly happen and there will always be unknown unknowns, not only, but also because of human hubris. However, it seems you are overestimating the prevalence of such events and extrapolating that to the current situation. If you take a birds-eye view on medical progress over the last 50-100 years says, it's just incredible.

> All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development.

Agree with you. From what we know today it seems that the unknown long term risks of the vaccines are a subset of the unknown long term risks of Covid.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#162

Post by csunbird »

takeda wrote: post #134
sigmaprimus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks

The side effects you get is your body immune system fighting an intruder. The reason why second shot is typically worse is because your body already produced antibodies so when you get 2nd shot it immediately goes into attack mode. BTW: different people have different immune systems, and their body reacts differently. I got my first dose in the morning. By afternoon I just felt tired and wanted sleep (I felt like I d…

I had exactly the same reaction to the first dose, except I had muscle pain in the vaccinated arm for 3 days.

Everyone says the second dose is worse although.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#163

Post by Johanx64 »

loxias wrote: post #100
sigmaprimus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death. Rhetoric like that is almost as bad as the conspiracies floating around. Brow beating someone with legitimate concerns is not right. Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary and successfully I might add to not aquire or transmit the virus. So ple…

> legitimate concerns FWIW, I didn't see any legitimate concerns. I would love to hear a legitimate concern. All I see is "but I don't know... I'm not sure...". And I just don't get it. facepalm I fully admit this could be due to a lack of imagination on my part. I often suffer from that, especially when it comes to empathy. > Thank you everyone for having this frank discussion and not canceling or censoring it(even…

You can't really test these things for long term side-effects/damage. Pretty legitimate concern in my book.

Short term side-effects and effectivenes and such are pretty well known by this point

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#164

Post by sigmaprimus »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #98
sigmaprimus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…

There are some pretty significant leaps here, where are these questions coming from? If someone were to say "no, that's not how it works" what would you do? What evidence (and please be specific, none of this "they went to fast" non-answer) would convince you?

Evidence? Specifically? OK I will try.

A list of the variants and their DNA code? Or whatever makes them vary.

A solid explanation of how these variants are more infectious, not just saying that "The numbers show it" but instead what is the real world physical change in the shape or attack vector that makes them more dangerous, or admiting it is unknown but being studied.

True numbers of deaths caused by covid and vaccines, you can't have it both ways and say "They tested positive for the virus and died so it was covid" then at the same time say "yes they got the vaccine but people die all the time, it wasn't nessisarly the vaccine."

A genuine record of which vaccines the well to do have recieved. Eg: Celebrities, Politicians, Billionaires. I suspect there are a lot more Pfizer going in their arms but they are telling the rest of us to take what we can get.

Maybe drop the racist, sexist, political anti white, anti male, anti Trump bullshit for a while in the media, because fighting the pandemic is just so much more critical right now. Instead of being opportunistic assholes and pushing those adgendas while everyone is scared, locked down and having their loved ones die alone?

IDK there is more, like the stuff comming out about Faucci signing off on funding banned research in Wuhan or the 2015 chinese report on weaponizing coronavirii but I think the first couple items on my list would go a long way. And before I catch a bunch more hate Ill leave it there.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#165

Post by herbst »

xeromal wrote: post #67
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

We're past that now. It's known as Pfizer in the official language of too many cities and countries.

It is maybe for you but not everywhere, i can see it being referred to as Biontech just as often, if not oftener than Pfizer. Maybe because Germany is our neighboor, but maybe also because it is "more right"

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#166

Post by sigmaprimus »

ulfw wrote: post #123
sigmaprimus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…

"which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy" You're the one who is asking SOCIAL MEDIA companies (i.e. Facebook and twitter) to educate you more. "I wish the social media giants would just stop all the censorship and allow the discussions to take place." Maybe that's the issue all along. Shouldn't have random people and nefarious state actors provide your education, but maybe go out there and read reputabl…

Nice try, don't try to argue that silencing information is helping because I should educate myself through approved sources rather than conversations with community. Whats next re education camps? Dont be a bully dude!

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#167

Post by xwolfi »

refurb wrote: post #87
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

"Only the manufacturer"? You mean the company that scaled up production to hundreds of millions of doses, ran clinical trials in dozens of countries for tens of thousands of patients, put together all the regulatory documentation for dozens of countries, including negotiations with regulators, then developed a worldwide logistics system to get the vaccine where it's needed. And did all that with few stumbles in less…

But they re like Fosun, one of several. Ofc it s amazing how Fosun managed to vaccinate a million of us in Hong Kong, shipping ultra cold vaccines from Germany and setting up factories soon in Singapore. But man, the vaccine is made by Biontech and without them fosun would be shipping nothing at all.

As for Pfizer, they do nothing at all for me in Hong Kong, see ?

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#168

Post by Pyramus »

chitowneats wrote: post #147
bawolff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blood clots happen at a rate of something like 1 in 100,000 people, the trial had something like 20,000 people getting the vaccine in it. Statistically its not surprising it wasn't caught. That the risk is probably not equally distributed just furthers that. For the trial to pick up the blood clots, it would probably have to administer the vaccine to at least half a million people if not more (and you would need othe…

Many of us have preexisting immunity. For that population, the marginal benefit of vaccination is zero. People should be informed about the risks.

Not really. If you are talking about pre-existing immunity from prior infection, the benefit may be less, and in fact it is recommended not to vaccinate within 6 months of infection.

If you are talking about innate immunity or cross-immunity from SARS-Cov-1 it's super rare and hasn't been shown to be relevant in most Western countries.

To see the (reduced) benefit even with prior infection just look at the numerous reports of re-infection, be it with a mutated version or otherwise, as well as the numerous reports of prior infected subjects with no or very little antibodies after a couple of months (not the full picture but still).

> People should be informed about the risks.

Show me one vaccine/medication where people were more informed than about the current Covid vaccines. We are at the point that for most folks it's riskier to drive to the vaccination appointment by car then the actual vaccination.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#169

Post by raducu »

greg5green wrote: post #102
eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article doesn't seem to address any of the strains originating in India, fwiw. My guess is that they haven't known of them long enough to understand their reaction in vaccinated people.

The popular media has done a huge disservice by naming this the "Indian double mutant." It's two changes that have been seen in other variants and have been studied already. The "double mutation" is L452R and E484Q. L452R is the defining feature of the B.1.429 variant (California). E484Q has been seen in derivatives of B.1.429 and in bunches of other variants in the US. It has some antibody evasive properties, but no…

Isn't the fact that those two mutations pop up in Brazil, South Africa and now India a good thing?

That could mean it's likely the virus is running out of useful mutations?

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#170

Post by brigandish »

randomsearch wrote: post #155
killingtime74 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should ask for sources instead. Authority is the wrong thing to trust in science

Authority is constantly used as an effective source of trust in science.

As an effective shortcut but it's still the wrong thing, ultimately, to trust.
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