It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.
The better analogy would be Foxconn.
True, thanx
Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
91–100 of 324 posts
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…
The very TLDR response to this is that MRNA is temporary and not self-replicating. Within a few hours of being administered, all the MRNA in the vaccine has been broken down by the body into amino acids. MRNA can't mutate because it doesn't replicate. It just produces proteins.
Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also the benefit that with the mRNA vaccines (and the adenovirus vaccines as well), your body is developing antibodies specifically for the spike protein, which is highly conserved. Your body's immune response to actual covid may, just by chance, focus on a less strongly conserved target.
I was under the impression that it's the other way around; spike protein is not conserved between variants [1]: https://theconversation.com/new-coronavirus-variant-what-is-...
That article is explaining that it's particularly worrying that some variants do have changes to the spike protein, not that this is common (it isn't).
Mutation causes random changes, the selection process eliminates those that render the mutated version less fit. The focus on the spike is because most random changes to the spike also make it useless, the virus becomes impotent. Such mutations won't thrive of course, and so we hardly see them at all, but they are happening.
In contrast, many random changes elsewhere might not prevent the virus from working. They might say, make it less able to survive outside a body, which would give it a disadvantage against variants that don't have that change, but if they also mean the immune system of a previous host doesn't recognise them, that's a big advantage to counteract that. We see lots of these variants because they "work", but since the spike is the same existing vaccines ought to be effective.
So this is why it made sense to focus on the spike, even though as this article shows it isn't a magical panacea.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. I know from your perspective scepticism is hard to understand, but it's not that God tells me science is fake or anything so outlandish. I genuinely don't trust the corporations…
Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.
I can't just walk in.
That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week.
Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not quite no downside. It may be inconvenient (especially if you live in a country where you can't necessarily get time off work to seek medical treatment) and you're quite likely to have a sore arm. Some people experience fever, headaches, or other annoying symptoms for a day or even longer. I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe no…
Not the OP, but to be fair the exact quote was: > no downside to receiving the vaccine if you've already had COVID So I assume that this means that there is no difference in potential unwanted effects between persons who have already had COVID and who have not.
Fair
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
>>>Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death. Rhetoric like that is almost as bad as the conspiracies floating around. Brow beating someone with legitimate concerns is not right. Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary and successfully I might add to not aquire or transmit the virus. So ple…
> Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary
Those things are emergency measures, that are important, but not anywhere near as effective as vaccines are. They stop things from rapidly spiraling out of control so instead they just slowly spiral. Its a holding action, one with a pretty high cost, not a solution.
> that has been rushed through trials
They've had the same amount of safety testing as other vaccines. With the rollout, they've probably had more real world testing than many vaccines.
> So please dont call me horrible and selfish
You're taking an action that threatens the lives of other people based on fears about personal safety that don't seem based in reality (at least for the pfizer vaccine. If you want to argue that the blood clots for AZ are scary regardless of their rarity, fine by all means).
Most people use the term selfish to describe someone who puts their own well being ahead of the group even when their concerns for personal safety are valid. If their concerns are largely made up, i can't help but think the adjective fits.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's one: https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna...
The study itself says that the immune response to the vaccine is not as diverse as a natural infection. That's how the study tried to figure out who had been infected: "Natural exposure induces a dominant Ab response against the nucleocapsid protein (NP), but since NP is not in the vaccine, there is no vaccine induced response against it. In this way vaccinated people who had a prior natural exposure can be classifie…
> It's also concerning that there is evidence that while people who have been vaccinated are much less likely to be infected. If they do get infected, they are more likely to be infected with one of the variants than unvaccinated
That's not "concerning"...it's a truism. You've made those people immune to the wild-type strain. If they're going to get infected, it's going to be to a variant. You're still missing the denominator (i.e. how often does it happen?) and the most important question: how serious is it when they do get infected?
So far, the answers are "not often", and "not serious", respectively.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…
I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…
There are some pretty significant leaps here, where are these questions coming from? If someone were to say "no, that's not how it works" what would you do? What evidence (and please be specific, none of this "they went to fast" non-answer) would convince you?
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
It is an emergency authorization vaccine. We haven't had the full trials. No one can honestly claim these are safe long term. In fact, they don't. The manufacturers do not assume any liability for you choosing to consume their experimental product. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c...
That depends a bit on your country.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
>>>Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death. Rhetoric like that is almost as bad as the conspiracies floating around. Brow beating someone with legitimate concerns is not right. Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary and successfully I might add to not aquire or transmit the virus. So ple…
> legitimate concerns
FWIW, I didn't see any legitimate concerns. I would love to hear a legitimate concern.
All I see is "but I don't know... I'm not sure...". And I just don't get it. facepalm I fully admit this could be due to a lack of imagination on my part. I often suffer from that, especially when it comes to empathy.
> Thank you everyone for having this frank discussion and not canceling or censoring it(even though it has cost me quite a bit of karma it has given me more perspective and I appreciate that)
Bravo, solidly agree. Things will only be broken more when we can't even talk with each other. Glad we can still do that. Whew. And I'll upvote your comments, should you care about the points. :)