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Why People Feel Like Victims

nautil.us

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Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#441

Post by bradlys »

gherkinnn wrote: post #420
bradlys wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think having a preference towards communism or socialism in some form over our current form of capitalism means that you cannot partake in being good at capitalism. It’s like saying to someone - jeez, if you hate your job so much then why are you so good at it? Stop complaining about the job sucking when you do so well! People can be good at things they don’t enjoy or find fulfilling. For instance, I’m very p…

Of course you can. It’s just that sooner or later you’ll look silly. Tweeting “fuck the system” from an iPhone? Fine. Everybody needs a phone, iPhones last a long time, and the SE models are cheap. Preaching about the perils of consumerism and demonising anybody along the way whilst working at Amazon and always buying the latest tech? Solid hypocrite.

> Preaching about the perils of consumerism and demonising anybody along the way whilst working at Amazon and always buying the latest tech? Solid hypocrite.

I just don't see this that often. Also - while you may denounce some cause - it doesn't mean you can't work at some place that might promote parts of that cause. After all - if you were a proponent of socialism or communism - how could you work at just about any company in the USA without being labeled as a "hypocrite"?

Sometimes the realities of the world force you to participate in things that you don't want to participate in...

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#442

Post by theonlybutlet »

missedthecue wrote: post #267
tasogare wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Systemic racism" is a conspiracy theory. It is a very convenient term because it is not disprovable easily yet allow to make a whole group of people responsible to all the problems of another one.

It is true that many people have attributed a wide range issues to it, on offentimes shaky reasoning, but there are also very clear examples of codified rules and laws keeping minority races down, for instance the minimum wage.

The minimum wage keeps poor people down. That doesn't make it systemically racist.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#443

Post by bingbong70 »

kian wrote: post #416
bingbong70 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. Learning this history is the first step of "doing something about it". Brown/black people should know their history too, we can't just paper over the historic criminality of certain groups of people because it feels uncomfort…

The first step to doing something about it is actually believing you're capable of it. I believe what the person you are responding to is trying to get across is that if we first focused on the achievements of a people, then when they later learn of the hardships endured, they will have a belief in themselves that they have the power to change it. And as importantly, that doing things in the other direction may have…

Do Jewish parents "save their children" from history lessons and postpone them?

When is the holocaust and other info about historic anti-semitism introduced?

I would be surprised to hear that they delay this, I believe some of these historical stories/events are part of their religious studies as children.

Giving the oppressive system a pass for X number of years and letting children walk through society ignorant of the threats they face is an even bigger disservice that any demoralization that may or may not occur in my opinion.

Black children literally get murdered by the state for benign activity, I think by 13 (the age Tamir Rice was murdered) they are old enough to start learning why.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#444

Post by Klinky »

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #428
Klinky wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because "other people did horrible things too" isn't a valid excuse.

Failing to acknowledge the failures of others and focusing on scapegoating problems onto a specific group(when others are guilty as well) is also not a valid position.

You're not scapegoating a problem onto a specific group if that specific group actually perpetrated or benefited from the problematic behavior.

Again, "other people did bad things" isn't a valid excuse for doing bad things.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#445

Post by Klinky »

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #425
Klinky wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a critique on American Exceptionalism and its failure to actually apply "all men are created equal" in spite of better examples existing in the world. The US still legally allowed segregation into the 60s. So many people rushing to use the "other countries were also horrible as well" defense. That's not really a defense.

We're pointing out that the problem is not particularly American, this is not a defense. Trying to make America seem worse then most of the world is warping the reality of the problem. Enslavement and mistreatment is a problem that many cultures, countries and creeds have struggled with. Not admitting this and factoring this into your explanations shows some bias against America.

I am not trying to make it look worse, I am stating that its factual history is very problematic. There were many victims that came out of that history, and still exist to this day. Again, you sound like you're saying "stop picking on America, other people were bad too". That's little comfort to America's victims.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#446

Post by anigbrowl »

insert_coin wrote: post #219
anigbrowl wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so much the problem of the person being targeted though? The approach you describe seems not to address the behavior of the aggressors at all.

Exactly, you be better. The most important person you need to change is yourself.

That just gives a pass to people who employ abusive behavior since the entire burden of adjustment is shifted to the receiver, incentivizing more abuse.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#447

Post by Klinky »

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #427
reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better understanding a human nature and what we're all capable of is certainly useful. Much of philosophy and psychology is devoted to this very idea.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Okay but states, classes and parties are made up of men, and one individual often has limited impact, while groups can have much larger and longer lasting impact. Typically the best and worst of humanity has been achieved through a collective, and not through the individual alone.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#448

Post by insert_coin »

anigbrowl wrote: post #446
insert_coin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, you be better. The most important person you need to change is yourself.

That just gives a pass to people who employ abusive behavior since the entire burden of adjustment is shifted to the receiver, incentivizing more abuse.

Yes become the abuser instead...much better plan.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#449

Post by rayiner »

epakai wrote: post #405
prestigious wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic racism no longer exists or at least I’m completely unaware of it. I find proponents of this theory like people who believe in big foot. Somehow he’s out there but they have zero evidence for it

Voter ID laws disproportionately affect racial minorities to this day, and are tantamount to a poll tax until the State bears the burden of providing ID. https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...

False. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/21/18230009/v...

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#450

Post by slowmovintarget »

patcon wrote: post #414
mhoad wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t know what you mean by teaching mastery of ones self control to children. They are kids not monks. You can teach them all the self control you like, I don’t think there is a serious argument that let’s say for some particularly sadistic reason I wanted to bully them and do real harm. How difficult do you think it would be exactly? Kids or adults for that matter aren’t failures for feeling hurt. The idea…

I see what he's saying, though I have different philosophy of what the world needs. If I'm attempting to repeat back his sensibility: It's an aspiration for people to be self-responsible. Look after self, then others. We're individuals first, and must look after ourselves, and then the collectivist-minded activities come after looking after the self. This self=>others axis is the basis of Maslow's hierarchy. But it's…

That's where lessons like "treat others as you would have them treat you" come in.
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