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Why People Feel Like Victims

nautil.us

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Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#51

Post by WalterBright »

the_only_law wrote: post #40
WalterBright wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US, start a business, reach a global marketplace, learn how to do anything you want to do, etc. When I was young it was pretty much unheard of for people to get wealthy before 25. Now it's commonplace and unremarkable.

> It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US Source? even the most conservative people I know who went to school in the 80s/90s say they could never afford it now. I myself am trying to figure out how to pay for it without $40k grand in debt if I choose to go back.

MIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQxyVuLeCs&list=PL9F74AFA03...

K-12: https://www.khanacademy.org/

All free, available on the supercomputer in your pocket.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#52

Post by _y5hn »

rednerrus wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #30

> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age. As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology. Growing up as one…

Same thing but I have girls. I don't want them growing up with the locus of control outside of themselves. The studies are convincing that that is the worst thing you can for a child.

Then to take control of your own mind and acknowledge you don't know, is the greatest achievement.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#53

Post by WalterBright »

Kye wrote: post #48
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

You do everything right, then one day a cop decides you were reaching for a gun instead of a wallet. Yes, choices matter, but sometimes the choices of others limit your own.

I've been pulled over many times. Here's what I do:

1. put my hands on the wheel in plain sight and keep them there

2. when the cop says "driver's license" I say "it's in my wallet in my right front pocket. I do not move.

3. cop says "ok, you can get your wallet".

4. I use one hand to get my wallet and the license.

5. cop says "registration"

6. I say "it's in the glove box" and I do not move.

7. cop says "ok you can get it"

8. I move slowly to get it.

What I never do is lunge for my cell phone, reach under the seat, turn around and try to get something from the back seat, try to grab the officer, try to drive off, etc.

Nothing's perfect, but your odds of survival improve greatly by doing this.

Yes, I've been held at gunpoint by a cop, too. Been robbed at gunpoint as well.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#54

Post by WalterBright »

tdeck wrote: post #38
WalterBright wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with being a victim is there's nothing to be done about it. Deciding to not being a victim is empowering, as it means you can do something about it.

How does being a victim imply that nothing can be done? It seems to me that the opposite could be the case. For example: If I'm the victim of a crime, the first step to reporting the crime is acknowledging that fact. Certain categories of criminals (con artists and sexual abusers) rely on the fact that victims are often reluctant to acknowledge their victimhood, even to themselves. This allows those individuals' beha…

> How does being a victim imply that nothing can be done?

Because if you had no role in the matter, you couldn't have prevented it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#55

Post by pseudalopex »

uvnq wrote: post #23
baleeeeeeve wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

It seems a lot easier, given the fact that accessing an audience or starting a business requires significantly less capital than it did back then. Although maybe there's a side to your argument that I'm missing?

I think they meant bootstrapping a life not a business.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#56

Post by pseudalopex »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #25
baleeeeeeve wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

Disagree, it's never been easier. The country is awash in vast amounts of money, trying to find ways to be invested, to be spent. Access to information and resources is higher than it has ever been. Sure, it's hard to just get by if you aren't out there hustling. The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. The world is your oyster if you are willing…

Most businesses fail. Why do you think that is?

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#57

Post by mhoad »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #49
mhoad wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: do you think that was some great thing that we should continue doing?

Teaching that words can't do you permanent harm, yes. How you feel when being called a name, or having someone say something hurtful may not be a choice. But whether you dwell on it, whether you choose to continue to feel hurt, whether you choose to act in revenge... all of those things are within one's control. We absolutely should teach self-control and mastery of one's emotions to children. It helps them become sa…

I really don’t know what you mean by teaching mastery of ones self control to children.

They are kids not monks. You can teach them all the self control you like, I don’t think there is a serious argument that let’s say for some particularly sadistic reason I wanted to bully them and do real harm. How difficult do you think it would be exactly?

Kids or adults for that matter aren’t failures for feeling hurt. The idea that you can’t hurt someone without physical pain is really not a serious idea.

It’s entirely possible to get overcome that and genuinely not let it impact you, I’m not saying that, I’m saying for a lot of people it’s not a normal reaction. The goal of life isn’t to not feel emotions in response to words. I genuinely am not even sure you would even really want that if you had a choice.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#58

Post by dmarcos »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's popular to be a victim these days. Much more popular than I recall it being earlier in my lifetime. It even goes so far as to regard people who aren't victims with contempt.

I’m a big fan of David Goggings and the self reliance messaging. A treasure.

He should be getting more attention but I guess he runs a bit against mainstream narratives. A taste:

https://twitter.com/davidgoggins/status/1386386177184333829?...

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#59

Post by WalterBright »

kevingadd wrote: post #42
WalterBright wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Not remotely.

Ah, so the reason that - just to pick an example here - my father who put in long hours as an IT professional and then came home to teach me and my siblings and kickstart my tech career, passed away is because he didn't come up with a plan and get busy not being a cancer victim? Somebody who loses their legs after getting hit by a drunk driver just needs to make a plan, stop being a victim and try to grow their legs…

I'm sorry you lost your father, cancer is a terrible disease. I lost my mom to cancer.

The vast majority of victims are of sound mind and body, they aren't legless. If your legs are crushed by a drunk, you have my sympathy. If you were playing on the freeway at the time, my sympathies would be a bit muted.

> Got COVID?

Personally, I did everything I could to reduce my risk, and am now vaccinated. 2/3 of Americans are not vaccinated, yet one can now just walk in and get vaccinated. I'm respectful and sympathetic to the health workers and essential workers who put their lives at risk.

But today, when vaccines (in the US) are trivially available, I'm not so sympathetic to those who do not get one, and then get Covid.

I had a conversation with one person who said she wasn't getting the vaccine because God would look out for her. I replied that God looked out for her by making the vaccine available.

The overwhelming majority of people in America are of sound mind and body.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#60

Post by slowmovintarget »

mhoad wrote: post #57
slowmovintarget wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching that words can't do you permanent harm, yes. How you feel when being called a name, or having someone say something hurtful may not be a choice. But whether you dwell on it, whether you choose to continue to feel hurt, whether you choose to act in revenge... all of those things are within one's control. We absolutely should teach self-control and mastery of one's emotions to children. It helps them become sa…

I really don’t know what you mean by teaching mastery of ones self control to children. They are kids not monks. You can teach them all the self control you like, I don’t think there is a serious argument that let’s say for some particularly sadistic reason I wanted to bully them and do real harm. How difficult do you think it would be exactly? Kids or adults for that matter aren’t failures for feeling hurt. The idea…

Self-control: Governing one's behavior and reaction.

Mastering one's emotions: Feeling the emotion, understanding it, and developing skills for overcoming negative feelings. Also, the ability to choose not to act based on strong emotion.

In a crisis, or in critical or chronic situations, possession of these two related skills usually yields superior outcomes.

It isn't "wrong" to feel the feelings. It is wrong to let the feelings dominate you to the point of paralysis or drive you to harmful behavior. Children can't help going through phases as their brains develop where they're overcome with emotions. You help them by teaching them it is OK to feel sad or angry. Then you help them by teaching them how to cope through action, or focus on something else like goals.

Having negative emotions is normal. Coping with negative emotions, mastering them, is a valuable skill.

Words do not inflict physical injury. You teach that. Words can inflict emotional pain. You also teach that this is so. Words can inflict mental injury, and you teach that, too. But you start with the far simpler formulation of "sticks and stones" until metaphor and nuance are available tools.

It's like teaching children about strangers. There are exceptions to every rule, but if you value their safety when they're small, you teach them the rule "Do not talk to strangers." Young children don't have the social context to parse exceptions until they're older... when the teaching has to add resolution and detail.

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