it took me many many years to finally see that the loudest victims i have dealt with were (and are) actually the worst abusers. They are just giving themself the excuse to treat everyone like shit and manipulate people, and there's no need to apologize or take any responsibility for such behavior -after all, they're the victims.
Why People Feel Like Victims
41–50 of 510 posts
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I certainly hope you're joking
Nope. Not remotely.
Somebody who loses their legs after getting hit by a drunk driver just needs to make a plan, stop being a victim and try to grow their legs back.
Got COVID? The ticket to a speedy recovery is hard work and positive thinking.
Pull yourself up out of nutritional deficiency and homelessness by your bootstraps! If you don't have boots, start by making some out of leaves and twigs.
Come on, Walter. You can say "sound mind and body" if you like but the reality is that "normal" is an arbitrary distinction set by one person or another, and at any moment you can become a victim because you get pushed out of "normal". You or I can look at someone and say "what do they have to complain about?" but you have no way to know if they're currently dying of an autoimmune disease or being blackmailed or working 3 jobs to pay off their spouse's medical bills.
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#43I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!
The trouble with being a victim is there's nothing to be done about it. Deciding to not being a victim is empowering, as it means you can do something about it.
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#44Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. When I was young, victimhood was mostly scorned. "Don't be a crybaby." "Shake it off." "Toughen up." "Words can't hurt you." These were the messages I got from parents and teachers when I was feeling sorry for myself.
Serious question: do you think that was some great thing that we should continue doing?
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#46> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age. As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology. Growing up as one…
These "narratives" are just that, fictional stories told to support a prevailing social ideology, and yes, they are dangerous, not the least because they ignore the facts.
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#47> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age. As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology. Growing up as one…
I can't blame them for making this misdiagnosis though. I grew up in a single-parent household. My mum was essentially a deadbeat mum who could hardly be arsed to take care of her kids (or be arsed to do anything else for that matter, like, say, have a job). While she was only rarely physically abusive, she was very emotionally abusive, as well as just neglecting in her parental role. She always acts like everyone else is wrong; to this day she bitches and moans about how everyone else wrongs her all the time. Everything I did as a child was wrong somehow. Her TIV is high.
Furthermore, I was bullied a lot at school; I was already quite insecure, and this only made it worse. Kids can be very mean, and the insecure shy kid is a good target. This was at a time when it was shrugged off with "boys will be boys" so little was done about this from the school other than send me to Teakwando lessons :-/
For most of my teens and twenties I felt horribly insecure in all sorts of ways. I didn't have the courage to actually apply for a programming job until I was 25. For a very long time I felt like people being nice to me were just humouring me; this was extremely silly and paranoid, and I let many potential friendships pass me by just because I was too insecure to actually ask people if they're keen to have a drink or whatever. At the time though, it was extremely hard to get over this. This didn't really change until I had my first girlfriend at 27.
It's no surprise I was diagnosed with autism, even though it was wrong. My problems mostly weren't inherent to my character, they were just results from my attitude.
This only made it worse; well-intentioned and empathic as the youth care[1] people were, they basically just see you as a victim to be pampered. It certainly didn't help me move forward, as all you feel is "woe is me", and the constant focus on your shortcomings is essentially just an assault on your self-confidence.
If I look at myself from 15 years ago vs. now then in many ways I'm the same person: I still like the same things, my politics are still similar, I have the same sense of humour, etc. But in many ways I couldn't be more different. It was a slow change that took about 4 years; there was never an "aha!" epiphany. This isn't an intellectual thing anyway, it's an emotional thing and overriding emotion with intellect is often very hard. People with depression can't be fixed by telling them there is nothing to be depressed about, and insecure people can't be fixed by telling them there is nothing to be insecure about.
Now, the context and situation is completely different than yours, but the point of the story is that how you see yourself, and see yourself in relation to others is extremely important. In fact, I'll go out on a limb here and claim it's one of the major factors determining your success and happiness in life (however you may measure these things), perhaps even the most important factor.
Perhaps I'm applying my own personal experiences a bit too much here, but what worries me especially is the effect is has on self-confidence of these kids. It's fine to have these kind of discussions in politics or academia, but teaching them to kids? I find it worrying. I think a more "deal with it" message along the lines of "yeah, you're gonna encounter racism and it sucks, you're still a great person with a lot of talents, so just deal with it" would be a lot better. It's unfair, but it is what it is, and if the end-goal is to empower black people then we should focus on what is effective, not what is perceived as "fair".
Perhaps this is also partly why both Asians and Latino people tend to do so much better than black people: a more positive empowering attitude in spite of racist obstacles. I think it's unfortunate that questions such as "what do these people do better?" are often explained as victim blaming of black people. In spite of mountains of text being written on this, especially in the last year, I find there's a sore lack of careful analysis on this topic as everything is infused with judgements and morality which clouds everything. Just the other day a HN discussion on the best messaging on these topics netted me a "white supremacy apologist" accusation/insult :-/
In the end, a lot of these questions are empirical questions, and should be answered as such. What you then do with the answers is very much a morality question, but it's an entirely different thing.
[1]: (presumably the US works different, but in the Netherlands kids with these kind of issues are more or less automatically enrolled in our communist Nazi socialist despotic "youth care" service, more or less like CPS except also for every-day normal guidance and counselling, and not just protection).
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this a moral or a factual statement? I guess I'd reject the whole victim/perpetrator dichotomy and say that people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. Lots of people and societies find this very uncomfortable - we generally like the cosmos to be largely about us, down to our decisions, both for the better and for the worse.
> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. When I was young, victimhood was mostly scorned. "Don't be a crybaby." "Shake it off." "Toughen up." "Words can't hurt you." These were the messages I got from parents and teachers when I was feeling sorry for myself.
Serious question: do you think that was some great thing that we should continue doing?
It is cruel to withhold this education from them, because a state of perpetual offendedness is misery.
Re: Why People Feel Like Victims
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Serious question: do you think that was some great thing that we should continue doing?
Like with most things, the best is probably some middle path, and society will overshoot one way and then the other. Whether we are currently “overshot” or not is up to the reader to decide :)