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Why People Feel Like Victims

nautil.us

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Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#21

Post by WalterBright »

baleeeeeeve wrote: post #16
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US, start a business, reach a global marketplace, learn how to do anything you want to do, etc.

When I was young it was pretty much unheard of for people to get wealthy before 25. Now it's commonplace and unremarkable.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#22

Post by WalterBright »

whydoibother wrote: post #20
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

What about people who suffer trauma, childhood or otherwise, due to the decisions of others? Saying people's lives are strictly in their control is just not true.

Help is available for mental issues from psychological trauma. Even self-help, there is endless material freely available.

For mental issues from physical trauma, like a brain injury, I qualified my statement with being of "sound mind". I feel immense empathy for such people.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#23

Post by uvnq »

baleeeeeeve wrote: post #16
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

It seems a lot easier, given the fact that accessing an audience or starting a business requires significantly less capital than it did back then. Although maybe there's a side to your argument that I'm missing?

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#24

Post by recursivedoubts »

If you are a victim you are entitled to treat your victimizer with contempt and, increasingly, violence. It removes your victimizer from then normal moral calculus.

All the better if the victimizer can be made a general category, and as amorphous and abstract as possible, thereby allowing your manipulator to direct your anger at whoever they choose from that category.

Note that this does not necessarily mean that you aren't a victim with legitimate complaints.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#25

Post by anonfornoreason »

baleeeeeeve wrote: post #16
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people's conditions are contingent on forces largely out of their control. That's a factual statement. It is a factual statement, I agree, but in the US it is not true. Peoples' lives are the sum of their choices, large and small. One can choose to learn how to make better choices. I spent a significant portion of every day learning to make better choices and doing things that will improve my life. Such as exercisi…

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

Disagree, it's never been easier. The country is awash in vast amounts of money, trying to find ways to be invested, to be spent. Access to information and resources is higher than it has ever been.

Sure, it's hard to just get by if you aren't out there hustling. The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. The world is your oyster if you are willing to put in the time and have any ability to plan, organize, and work.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#26

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #18
WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

The trouble with being a victim is there's nothing to be done about it. Deciding to not being a victim is empowering, as it means you can do something about it.

At the moment, I'm going out for a run because running seems to stave off old age dementia. Ah'll be back later.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#28

Post by mhoad »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

This is a good time to recommend some supplementary reading: The Coddling of the American Mind[1], a book that does a great job of outlining what has changed in the last 30 years and why there is very much a generational gap at play with how people perceive themselves. It turns out, raising kids in an environment of "safetyism" where nothing ever goes wrong makes full-grown adults really unresilient, and more prone t…

I’ve not read the book but the first thing that came to mind was how does this explain the boomers?

If I am understanding the premise correctly it’s implying there’s some meaningful distinction across generational lines about mental resilience?

The last five years have made that abundantly clear that premise would have some real flaws in it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#29

Post by throwawayboise »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's popular to be a victim these days. Much more popular than I recall it being earlier in my lifetime. It even goes so far as to regard people who aren't victims with contempt.

Agreed. When I was young, victimhood was mostly scorned. "Don't be a crybaby." "Shake it off." "Toughen up." "Words can't hurt you." These were the messages I got from parents and teachers when I was feeling sorry for myself.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#30

Post by rayiner »

> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age.

As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology.

Growing up as one of the few brown kids in what was (back then) solidly Republican Virginia, I learned we should treat everyone like we'd want to be treated ourselves. I don't think it would have helped my personal or professional success--not to mention my mental health--to be socialized to look out for these dark and foreboding forces around every corner. That's irrespective of whether it's true or not. If our white neighbors hated having Bangladeshis move in next door, they never let on, and frankly I think I'm better off not having dwelt on what was in their deepest thoughts.

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