Why People Feel Like Victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#421

Post by ericd » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #401

ericd wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe it seems like it's just trying to get you to shut up, but part of that message is that you're the one who's in control of your reaction, and that's what you can reliably control in that kind of situation. That even if your feelings are hurt, fundamentally you can still be OK, if you can learn to let it slide off you rather than getting all tied up about it. That's a pretty helpful, if difficult, lesson to…

Or you can teach them to fight to be treated fairly and to fight for others to be treated fairly. That's what I see out of the generation in their 20s. They don't seem to see themselves as victims. They have a keen sense of justice and are willing to speak out.

Being OK isn't mutually exclusive with defending yourself. But if you're really OK, you might not feel the need to engage, because it might not really matter. The point is not to let your emotions control your response. If you calmly decide that you need to push for something, then that's the response you go with.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#422

Post by rednerrus » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

devonian wrote: post #148

rednerrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing but I have girls. I don't want them growing up with the locus of control outside of themselves. The studies are convincing that that is the worst thing you can for a child.

Check out the following book, I have found it a useful with my own daughter: Raising girls who like themselves by Kasey Edwards.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#423

Post by breakyerself » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #392

breakyerself wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if skull shape determines a person's personality? It would be best if your hypothetical scenario was something with more than a shred of long discredited science behind it.

Are you aware of a discussion of the best scientific research and arguments on either side? my understanding is the same as yours but I’d like to become more educated on the topic

Basically the only academic work since the decline of eugenics that has tried to make this case is the bell curve by Charles Murray. It attempted to prove that the differences in IQ between races are genetic, but it's methodology was not up to the standards you would want for such a provocative claim.

This video goes over a lot of the problems with the book.

https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#424

Post by Klinky » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #412

Klinky wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inward to whom? Every human? Isn't that just as "vague" and unfair to blame even the slaves for their slavery?

Blame the slaves themselves? no. But stating the reality that as a human there are other human beings who have things in common with them(skin color, national origin, culture, ethnicity) who also enslave and mistreat other people; helps people see the bigger picture of predatory behavior that were all potentially capable of.

It's of little help for a victim to know that someone with something in common with them is a victimizer elsewhere in the world.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#425

Post by reaLg_move_in_3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #415

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NA was rather slow at coming to terms with these issues But so were other parts of the world. Many countries in the Middle East continued to have slavery far beyond North America (Saudi Arabia did not outlaw it until 1962) and the Middle East is certainly culturally and historically very different from NA.

This was a critique on American Exceptionalism and its failure to actually apply "all men are created equal" in spite of better examples existing in the world. The US still legally allowed segregation into the 60s. So many people rushing to use the "other countries were also horrible as well" defense. That's not really a defense.

We're pointing out that the problem is not particularly American, this is not a defense. Trying to make America seem worse then most of the world is warping the reality of the problem.

Enslavement and mistreatment is a problem that many cultures, countries and creeds have struggled with. Not admitting this and factoring this into your explanations shows some bias against America.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#426

Post by reaLg_move_in_3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #424

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame the slaves themselves? no. But stating the reality that as a human there are other human beings who have things in common with them(skin color, national origin, culture, ethnicity) who also enslave and mistreat other people; helps people see the bigger picture of predatory behavior that were all potentially capable of.

It's of little help for a victim to know that someone with something in common with them is a victimizer elsewhere in the world.

A better understanding a human nature and what we're all capable of is certainly useful. Much of philosophy and psychology is devoted to this very idea.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#427

Post by reaLg_move_in_3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

reaLg_move_in_3 wrote: post #426

Klinky wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's of little help for a victim to know that someone with something in common with them is a victimizer elsewhere in the world.

A better understanding a human nature and what we're all capable of is certainly useful. Much of philosophy and psychology is devoted to this very idea.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#428

Post by reaLg_move_in_3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #387

strangeattractr wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel somewhat hypocritical to accuse others of having their head in the sand whilst claiming slavery, genocide, racism and misogyny are uniquely western phenomenon? I think the irony of the self-loathing westerner, is that in believing their history is uniquely evil, are practising a sort of white supremacy. Not only in being completely oblivious to the history of other parts of the world. But by believing…

No, because "other people did horrible things too" isn't a valid excuse.

Failing to acknowledge the failures of others and focusing on scapegoating problems onto a specific group(when others are guilty as well) is also not a valid position.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#429

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #371

michaelmrose wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory but there is effectively already in many cases greater affirmative action for white people already. Lets look at Harvard as a case study. 43% of white students at Harvard are legacies, athletes, or related to staff and 75% of these 43% wouldn't have been admitted on merits. Around 1/3 of white people at Harvard are there because of effectively white affirmative action. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/s…

So explain the drive to eliminate test based admissions at heavily Asian NYC and VA public high schools

I don't feel the need to as one doesn't negate the other.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#430

Post by reaLg_move_in_3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #296

livinginfear wrote: post #243

I always considered the current culture of cultivated-victimhood to be rooted in the manner Western people fundamentally define themselves by their triumphs against adversity. In the absence of real adversity, people seek and create surrogate adversity for themselves to triumph over. From this process they can rationalise themselves as having the inner-strength to overcome such barriers.

How about the west being founded on slavery, and genocides while sustaining racism and misogyny for hundreds of years. I hear a lot of "head in the sand" thinking. If we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist and never happened.

> west being founded on slavery

The "west" was not founded on slavery, this is incorrect. This is the kind of "woke revisionism" that things like the 1619 tried to push through and were inaccurate.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/24/editorial-1...

https://reason.com/2020/03/06/1619-project-fact-checker-niko...