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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#661

Post by belorn »

waterhouse wrote: post #578
TameAntelope wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know we joke about it a lot, but I think there's a serious case to be made that the Internet's ability to connect groups of previously unconnected people might end up literally ending humanity, or at least severely setting humanity back from a human rights standpoint. "Incels" are one example of this that you're pointing out here, where a group of people who've always existed without name are now able to group toge…

> create a feedback loop amongst themselves that results in literally mass murder. I dispute that causation. Mass murderers are extreme outliers that usually have identifiable mental problems, and I would say the primary cause of their behavior is those mental problems, not whatever particular thing they say triggered them. Also, even if you did show that a certain ideological group was significantly overrepresented…

Reminds me of a case here in Sweden where a father was found guilty of attempted murder of his half year old child. Just hours before the attempt he had been at the hospital begging to be committed since he was hearing voices and he was scared that he might hurt someone, but the beds was full so he was sent home.

Healthcare for mental health is still very much underdeveloped, especially when the patient is male. It is just easier to blame the individual.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#663

Post by dukeofdoom »

mlyle wrote: post #630
dukeofdoom wrote: post #518

I watched this average looking girl on youtube go to stunning. She started by caring about her appearance. And started looking to basically start upgrading her self, one step at a time. 1) She started to work out regularly 2) She got a nose job 3) Buys well fitting designer clothes 4) Spends money on hair and nails 5) Wears gold jewelry and hand bags. All of these complement her appearance. When some girls go to so m…

At the same time... if all the incels improve their fashion, attractiveness, and dating game... it's going to be at the expense of someone else, right? Or do we think more in total will end up partnered and the total size of the pie will increase?

I'm not sure how to answer that. The dating game is in some ways like any other game. There's some minimum threshold of competence below which nobody wants to play with you. Ideally, you have enough skills that people will want to play with you all the time. If you conduct yourself well, they will look forward to playing with you over and over. But at the same time, I recognize that there are people beyond mastering even the basics.

But also, dating is usually many to many type of activity. Sure maybe marriage is one to one. But you can enjoy dating even if it does not result in marriage, multiple times with multiple people.

I dated a very obese, unattractive girl before. Ultimately it was her selfishness and failure to understand reciprocity in a relationship, that made me not want to see her anymore. Still was an interesting experience.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#664

Post by symlinkk »

ergot_vacation wrote: post #370

The vast number of people commenting here that are convinced that a happy, healthy life is impossible without a sexual/romantic partner is eye-opening, and a bit horrifying. Other people will not fix you. Trying to drown your problems in a woman (or man!) is no different then trying to drown them in food, or alcohol, or any number of harder drugs. Stop running from your problems and face them.

Reproduction may be the most fundamental desire that humans have and is essential to the continuation of the species.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#665

Post by [deleted] »

robocat wrote: post #606
toyg wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no practical way to “tax and redistribute” sex. But there is a way to improve supply: give dignity to prostitution.

Physical sex is not intimacy. Sex work leads to some very strange dynamics, because often the Johns are desperate for intimacy, but they are paying for women that provide zero actual intimacy (because it is usually entirely faked.) I am sure there is some ideal world where prostitution could satisfy emotional needs, but in my admittedly very limited knowledge it doesn't. Prostitution has been legal in my country sinc…

[deleted]

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#666

Post by mlyle »

gsk22 wrote: post #626
mlyle wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah. I think for me, in the long term, I'd be miserable without a partner. The continuity and shared journey is a key part of what makes life tolerable. Yes, friendships are great, but they're not the same. Not to mention: I like getting laid. I also think my wife is a uniquely good partner for me. If I lost her, for some reason, it would be difficult to find a situation nearly as good for me. That's hardly the same…

Miserable is defined as "wretchedly unhappy"...you really would feel that way without a partner? That sounds like an unhealthy mindset. I understand not being as happy or fulfilled without a partner, but _miserable_?

It's hard to say.

I've known people who are happy and fulfilled living alone, but it's hard for me to picture myself in their shoes.

My wife and I have an awesome relationship. I would be okay-ish, but it couldn't hold a candle to what I have now.

The big bright spots in my life are my work, my relationship with my wife, and my kids. I would have more time to play video games and consume media, and I'm sure I'd have some more friends and hobbies... But it's hard for me to picture papering over her absence with friendships and hobbies.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#667

Post by colmvp »

standardUser wrote: post #472
commandlinefan wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really worried for my teenage son. Dating was brutal when I was doing it 20 years ago, and as far as I can tell, it's gotten so, so much worse since. Modern dating can't literally be "winner take all", but it sure looks like it's getting close.

I strongly disagree, but my evidence is all anecdotal. I'm not saying that literally every guy can find a partner, but I have seen all manner of men end up with perfectly lovely partners (and/or occasional sex partners). And when I say "all manner" I mean dumb guys, ugly guys, short guys, guys with terrible hygiene. The spectrum of men I have personally witnessed have success with women is vast and diverse and even k…

As a short guy, I chuckled at being grouped with dumb guys, and guys with terrible hygiene lol

You're not wrong though, both men and women love to make fun of a short guys.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#668

Post by supernovae »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #595
robocat wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression and anxiety usually reduce libido. Edit: Also an unhappy relationship often can lead to poor sex, depression, and anxiety.

Sounds like we need to address depression and anxiety with something other than drugs.

Shorter work weeks, universal healthcare, affordable housing, open borders, freedom to travel, less consumerism, more time for friends/family...

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#669

Post by symlinkk »

h2odragon wrote: post #100

Our inability to talk about sex is a big problem that enhances all the others. Some people are happy abstaining from sex altogether, those folks might have useful advice for the Incels but they're shy of offering from having been burnt before. There's plenty of people for whom sex isn't necessarily involved in romance; I personally think a lot of people suffer because they confuse and conflate those two ideas.

Abstaining from sex is not useful advice. Sex and intimacy is a fundamental human desire and it’s cruel and unethical to tell people that they should just suck it up and suppress it.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#670

Post by imbnwa »

vimy wrote: post #97
edgyquant wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this thrown around by Jordan Peterson and his fans but I’ve never met anyone, regardless of how crazy their ideology was, advocate for equality of outcomes outside of basic necessities. I’m convinced it’s a strawman.

Progressives advocate abolishing advanced classes in high school because “they have too many white and Asian students”. Several schools have done so. That is equality of outcome in practice.

Citations?
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