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Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

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Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#171

Post by anotha1 »

ctvo wrote: post #122
berkeleyjunk wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Info about what products sell well? Amazon has a thriving white label business and they can use it to decide what to make.

And we think they need to risk the lost of business of breaking into your data on AWS to get this information? They somehow have no other way to infer this? How much business is this thriving Amazon-made products line? It's a fraction of AWS's profits considering retail's overall profits.

> They somehow have no other way to infer this?

That's actually the point. So what if they're using "anonymous" or other indirect data? If "Amazon.com" might be benefiting from AWS data of any kind then it needs to be investigated as potentially anti-competitive.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#172

Post by cycomanic »

dahfizz wrote: post #136
spaceribs wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the meme is "Amazon pays no federal taxes on it's profits", and that is a correct statement.

Even that is not really true. They paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018, but have before and since. I'm no fan of Amazon, but you have to admit there is a pretty large distance between "Amazon pays no tax" and "Amazon pays billions in tax, but they didn't pay this one specific kind of tax a couple years ago". https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-in...

This is quite pendandic. When you calculate your tax rate do you also include GST(VAT)? Because this is essentially the same thing.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#173

Post by shiftpgdn »

alias_neo wrote: post #111
shiftpgdn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course they do. There was a post on here about a year ago from someone in the "Amazon profitability team" that involved digging through customers AWS instances to see what they could learn or duplicate for Amazon.

I'm more than a little disturbed by that response, can you back that bold accusation up with some references? I _need_ to read more about this (about to begin a migration to AWS, not retail though).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19734261

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/ovh-ceo-unlike-amazo...

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/amazon-literally-s...

https://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2019/9/19/20874818/amazon-allb...

I can't find the most recent set of posts about peering into customer's AWS instances to research what they could copy but consider that govcloud exists.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#174

Post by pas »

cblconfederate wrote: post #155

I am constantly amazed by the level of trust that people give to tech companies. how did they earn this

A trustless (eco)systems is usually not efficient. So the cost-benefit analysis points to almost-blindly trusting Amazon, reap as much of the benefits as you can. And don't be surprised when it turns out that Amazon abused/exploited your trust.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#175

Post by Gasparila »

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#176

Post by jonnycomputer »

spaceribs wrote: post #2

Amazon should be nationalized. All these 3rd party companies want is a "farmers market", a stall to sell their wares. Give them the municipal software infrastructure they need to do so and maintain it as a public good.

Or broken up. Its AWS and its online retail are each sufficiently large enough to be anti-competitive on their own.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#177

Post by an_opabinia »

sharklazer wrote: post #82
anotha1 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted, but I disagree that it's backfiring. Backfiring would imply things are changing or getting worse for them. And I'm certain that we're not at "peak Amazon." Worse, Americans especially are becoming numb to top down abuses. Not only am I worrying that this is not backfiring, but I'm also worried about the precedent we're setting by being so tolerant to it.

“Money talks and BS walks” Consumers may not be fed up with Amazon, but if this is SOP then the sellers WILL leave and a competitor with better SOP will come in. Getting f’ed in the arse as a consumer is one thing. Getting f’ed in the arse by Jeffy B as a business is another. It is trust which makes this world go ‘round.

If sellers want their sales information to be private, they should make a compelling retail experience they control. That is where they obtain real competitive advantage. Changing from Amazon to another online retailer - that retailer will still analyze third party sales data.

It still isn’t clear if it matters. You have little perspective or experience on selling easily cloned $10-100 items (Amazon Basics) anywhere. Most of the margin is made at the point of manufacturing, by taking $1 overseas labor and selling it for $5. AmazonBasics and the other product are both made by the same labor, the same process, so the economics of what’s really going on are still in equilibrium.

But I understand (though not really sympathize with) the aspiring middleman trying to buy that $5 product and sell on Amazon being mad about doing, essentially, product discovery for Amazon. On the other hand nobody is forcing them to be middlemen.

You don’t have to launder cheap overseas labor at all. If the EU commission focused on the economics that mattered - the labor arb - the impact will be as large as you’re anticipating. It’s my opinion that the injustice of the offshore labor system is of far greater importance than some bullshit Amazon versus Some Aspiring EU Tech Company battle.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#178

Post by poidos »

count wrote: post #143
choward wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stores are you going to that have third party sellers? A better analogy is a mall.

Nearly every grocery store in the US has third party sellers. They pay the store for shelf space, provide their own stockers, etc. It's not as different as you'd believe, because you've 'heard' of the brand names doing it.

A good example that I see at my local grocery store all the time is Coca-Cola.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#179

Post by [deleted] »

cycomanic wrote: post #172
dahfizz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that is not really true. They paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018, but have before and since. I'm no fan of Amazon, but you have to admit there is a pretty large distance between "Amazon pays no tax" and "Amazon pays billions in tax, but they didn't pay this one specific kind of tax a couple years ago". https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-in...

This is quite pendandic. When you calculate your tax rate do you also include GST(VAT)? Because this is essentially the same thing.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#180

Post by dahfizz »

cycomanic wrote: post #172
dahfizz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that is not really true. They paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018, but have before and since. I'm no fan of Amazon, but you have to admit there is a pretty large distance between "Amazon pays no tax" and "Amazon pays billions in tax, but they didn't pay this one specific kind of tax a couple years ago". https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-in...

This is quite pendandic. When you calculate your tax rate do you also include GST(VAT)? Because this is essentially the same thing.

I guess it depends on the context. When I am filing my income tax, I am focused on that. But when budgeting or discussing tax liability in general, I certainly don't forget about the tens of thousands of dollars I pay in local, sales, SS, etc taxes.

I would certainly not make the claim "I paid no taxes this year" if I managed to skirt only federal income tax.

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