Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 466 posts

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#131

Post by boomboomsubban »

ch4s3 wrote: post #88
boomboomsubban wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be an investigation into why they can make a far better offer than their competition. Most answers are likely exploitative in some way.

> Most answers are likely exploitative in some way On what basis are you making a claim like that? Toyota sells roughly as may vehicles in the US a Ford and more than the other manufacturers. Their cars are in many ways better than their competitors qualitatively and often cheaper. Do you think they are exploiting people? I could keep listing examples of market leaders that offer better products that are more aligned…

>Do you think they are exploiting people?

Yes, part of how they achieved this was by violating emissions standards for a decade, something that they've been fined for. I'd be willing to wager they engage in similar practices too.

>I could keep listing examples of market leaders that offer better products that are more aligned with consumer preferences,

Their existence alone won't convince me. You need to answer why the competition is unable to produce similar products at similar prices.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#132

Post by 49531 »

LightG wrote: post #39
spaceribs wrote: post #2

Amazon should be nationalized. All these 3rd party companies want is a "farmers market", a stall to sell their wares. Give them the municipal software infrastructure they need to do so and maintain it as a public good.

It's a catch-22 ... would Amazon be this innovative had it been nationalised? At what point do you nationalise? Is there a next technology which will be stifled if it was nationalise? Does nationalisation sttifle innovation? I've been wrestling with these questions as I actually don't like Amazon for all the reasons that have been well publicised ... but their customer service is excellent. Which sets me against a st…

> Does nationalisation stifle innovation?

I would argue that it does not. We have a lot of innovations from the last 100 years that have come from state-run projects / endeavors.

The more I think about it the more it looks as though private ownership stifles innovation if there isn't a direct profit motive for it.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#133

Post by ch4s3 »

swiley wrote: post #114
ch4s3 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> too big to fail How is Amazon "too big to fail" in your opinion? That phrase "I think they're too large", it means that a business is so central to the functioning on the broader economy and to several other industries that their failure would tank the whole economy. Think Boeing or JP Morgan Chase Bank. > and have all the money to buy laws, What exact laws has Amazon bought?

"too big to fail" means that a business has friends in the legislature and can keep on acting like the local affluent drunk teenager who somehow manages to crash all their parents cars without getting a DUI. If we have businesses that are "too big to fail" then why bother having a market economy?

That's not what people meant in 2008 when the phrase "too big to fail" came into the lexicon. The phrase meant that there was systemic risk. You're moving the goal posts to mean "big companies are behaving badly," which is different.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#134

Post by tw04 »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #84
mk89 wrote: post #21

Well, it's something that is slowly backfiring. It's under the eyes of everyone, and not enforcing such policy will only make it even worse for Amazon itself that eventually will end up selling only non-branded products. Finally it will be only another e-commerce like "ebay" used to be, and something else will replace it. Just enjoy the ride until you can. PS: speaking out of experience, I had one time a talk to a di…

Amazon != AWS. As someone who has access to customer data in AWS, I'm very limited in what information I can access (to the point where it actively makes my job in Premium Support harder than it would be otherwise). I also have to provide a legitimate business reason for access to data. Not only is there an audit trail for what I do internally, but any calls I make to review customer data is published in the customer…

It doesn't have 0 to do with AWS. AWS funds the amazon beast they compete against. As a retailer you would have to be absolutely insane to feed money to the Amazon mothership via AWS so they can continue to fund undercutting you in the retail space.

All of that is ignoring the fact that any customer of size WILL be sharing details about their go-to-market with their AWS account team. Just because a random guy in support can't login to their systems doesn't mean their assigned architect doesn't know what their process workflow looks like and didn't help them design it...

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#135

Post by Loughla »

sneak wrote: post #105
suprfsat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos will testify in front of congress that he will cease to be innovative if required to pay taxes.

Amazon pays mountains of payroll taxes, as they are one of the largest employers in the world. The "Amazon pays no taxes" meme is a false one.

Isn't it the workers who (whom? I never know) pay the payroll tax? That's their money, in exchange for their time spent on work, that's not Amazon's money. This doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#136

Post by dahfizz »

spaceribs wrote: post #121
sneak wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon pays mountains of payroll taxes, as they are one of the largest employers in the world. The "Amazon pays no taxes" meme is a false one.

I think the meme is "Amazon pays no federal taxes on it's profits", and that is a correct statement.

Even that is not really true. They paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018, but have before and since.

I'm no fan of Amazon, but you have to admit there is a pretty large distance between "Amazon pays no tax" and "Amazon pays billions in tax, but they didn't pay this one specific kind of tax a couple years ago".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-in...

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#137

Post by jollybean »

no_wizard wrote: post #124
whoknew1122 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon != AWS. As someone who has access to customer data in AWS, I'm very limited in what information I can access (to the point where it actively makes my job in Premium Support harder than it would be otherwise). I also have to provide a legitimate business reason for access to data. Not only is there an audit trail for what I do internally, but any calls I make to review customer data is published in the customer…

To me the only difference is that AWS biggest client base has the money and expertise to go after Amazon in protracted legal battles while simultaneously scrubbing AWS from their companies. Most retailers, even big ones, don’t have the money or expertise to do this like that. Of the few who do (Apple for instance) Amazon is keen in making sure that those companies are heard and has direct relationships with them, but…

I think there are enough retailers with at least some money, I think this is mostly an issue of business expectations.

If AWS were caught sharing your data, with anyone, for any reason, it would be a gigantic mess of a problem. Forget 'competing with Amazon on Amazon' - we're talking about sensitive data of all kinds in every single line of business. It would destroy them.

Selling on Amazon, and then having sneaky Amazon PM's use your data against you is bad, but the quasi-same thing would exist in other retailers. Best Buy doesn't sell '3rd Party' so obviously all of their sales data is theirs, and I think that the expectations between '3rd Party' and not '3rd Party' Amazon may just be a little bit blurred.

I'm suspicious frankly about the distinction, because Amazon may very well believe that that data is theirs to look at anyhow.

But AWS has to be a different story, if not, it's going to hurt.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#138

Post by Loughla »

ceejayoz wrote: post #3
spaceribs wrote: post #2

Amazon should be nationalized. All these 3rd party companies want is a "farmers market", a stall to sell their wares. Give them the municipal software infrastructure they need to do so and maintain it as a public good.

An apt comparison - most of the farmers’ markets around here have been ruined by resellers, too. No, those Driscoll strawberries in March didn’t come from upstate New York farms.

Seriously, though. Between reselling and 'owner/operator businesses' (read: pyramid schemes selling oils, scents, candles, and makeup), the local farmer's market is just an absolute train wreck anymore.

Local farmers who used to sell at the farmer's market have moved to subscription boxes, from what I can tell.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#139

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

sumedh wrote: post #6

Cant Costco, Walmart also do the same thing, why is Amazon being singled out here?

Difference is that sellers have options because none of these are monopolies. It's not abusing your size at that scale and thus not antitrust. The same rules don't apply to everyone because not everyone owns an entire market.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#140

Post by dahfizz »

Loughla wrote: post #135
sneak wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon pays mountains of payroll taxes, as they are one of the largest employers in the world. The "Amazon pays no taxes" meme is a false one.

Isn't it the workers who (whom? I never know) pay the payroll tax? That's their money, in exchange for their time spent on work, that's not Amazon's money. This doesn't make sense to me.

In the US, "payroll" taxes are split between employer and employee. The biggest items that fall into payroll are Social Security and Medicare.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-major...

Post reply on HN