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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

regulations.gov

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#421

Post by eulers_secret »

Mixtape wrote: post #71
lima wrote: post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

On Reddit's mobile web page, after clicking the 'continue in browser' button, go to hamburger menu -> settings -> "Ask to Open In App" and uncheck the checkbox. Removes all the 'reminders'.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#422

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

steve-benjamins wrote: post #296

Web.com charges 13 months in a year. They bill months in 4 week intervals— so a month = 28 days which = 13 months per year. This is all in their fine print. Screenshot: https://twitter.com/stevebenjamins/status/138531992456700313...

I don't think I would call this a dark pattern as much as just false advertising. Putting an asterisk that links to teeny fine print where they say "a month is not a month" does not absolve them, and if there were enough money at stake (guessing there probably isn't) any competent lawyer should be able to get a good class action out of this.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#423

Post by jiggawatts »

Connecting to an Azure AD / Office 365 account from a desktop application will pop up a dialog box with a small hidden blue link on the bottom left corner to "log in to this application only".

The big button in the usual OK position will let the organisation manage your device, including pushing software to it and remote wiping. Even if it's not their device. Even if you're just logging in to one app, one time.

Microsoft is blatantly using dark patterns to inflate their InTune numbers, at the expense of user privacy and choice.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#424

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

swiley wrote: post #310
Mixtape wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

I'm so thankful for the Reddit redesign, I had a serious problem spending way too much time on that site. Now it's almost completely unusable.

So is letting you know about old.reddit.com a bad thing?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#425

Post by hakfoo »

magnetowasright wrote: post #335
easterncalculus wrote: post #207

One example for sure is the endless CAPTCHAs you receive on virtually any large website when you attempt to connect from TOR. Each time you solve one it takes forever just to complain about how you spending several minutes selecting every 'light' suddenly isn't good enough to prove your humanity. You're not "checking if I'm human" 60 times in a row, you're blocking me for not wanting to be tracked on your website.

I experience this using Firefox temporary container extension, some other privacy extensions/settings, and a pihole. The worst bit is when it refuses to let you use an audio captcha; I can’t believe they’re allowed to take away accessibility on a whim. Not that it really makes much difference to the website but I’ll usually give up and maybe send them an email if I care enough to let them know that it’s not accessibl…

I got that captcha somewhere recently, and I found the UX appaling as a first-time user.

"Slide the control to complete the picture". I interpreted it the first time as looking like the old iOS slide-to-unlock convention: "Once I slide the control over, it will complete the picture correctly." Now, this may be a well-intentioned accessibility thing, but it wasn't obvious that the slider was connected to the puzzle piece in the same way.

This was reinforced by the fact it was a bit janky on my entirely overkill rig, so the puzzle piece was moving out of synch with the slider until after I had overshot and failed the CAPTCHA.

I always wondered if we had much hard data on both the efficacy and the necessity of captchas. If you're not selling 3080s, you probably just need the most minimal deterrence to auto-scrapers-- the old "seven + 4 = " CAPTCHA probably does enough at a very low processing and accessibility cost.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#426

Post by shkkmo »

anoncake wrote: post #393
shkkmo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An informative prompt explaining why permissions are needed with a single continue button is not a dark pattern. If you have a "decline" button that bypasses the browser, then you are using a dark pattern.

As long as it doesn't mimic the browser. (Another reason why user agent strings and other ways websites can identify the user's browser are a bad idea).

It doesn't matter if it mimics the browser. If you are trying to stop the browser from protecting the user as intended, it is a dark pattern, regardless of how well you camoflage the attempt.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#427

Post by Borgz »

This thread is a very good example of the bystander effect. There are currently 419 comments on this Hacker News thread, yet only 16 comments on regulations.gov.

It is possible to make anonymous comments on regulations.gov, which I think leaves no good reasons not to post your comments there if you want them to be heard.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#428

Post by jwitthuhn »

thejosh wrote: post #383
hda2 wrote: post #380

The "hold-your-offline-device-hostage-until-you-attempt-to-connect" pattern. It goes something like this: When setting up a new unlinked kindle device, Amazon tries to trick you into connecting to the internet by showing a wifi setup screen that cannot be skipped. The only way to skip it is to supply the device with bad credentials and let it attempt to connect and fail. Only when it fails will it allow its owner to…

Microsoft has really pushed this in the recent(?) versions of Windows 10. When it was first released it wasn't this bad, now it pretty much forces you during install to link an account then also forces you later (as you mentioned).

Yeah this is still happening in Windows 10. I reinstalled Win 10 Pro recently and the only way to make a local account during initial setup was to unplug the ethernet cable on my desktop. As long as an internet connection is up, it isn't even a hidden option.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#430

Post by spentu »

hda2 wrote: post #380

The "hold-your-offline-device-hostage-until-you-attempt-to-connect" pattern. It goes something like this: When setting up a new unlinked kindle device, Amazon tries to trick you into connecting to the internet by showing a wifi setup screen that cannot be skipped. The only way to skip it is to supply the device with bad credentials and let it attempt to connect and fail. Only when it fails will it allow its owner to…

Since beginning of the year, I have installed two Win10 two times. As I expected some dark patterns, I made sure that these machines were not physically connected to any network. Even this worked, it still managed to piss me of by forcing security questions for admin user. Seems that only way to avoid this "feature", is to modify register. Even on pro-version.

There might have been some obscure way of avoiding connecting via installer (perhaps a link inside EULA text). But as long the internet is not available for the machine I believe that this workaround should be possible to use, until MS decides that internet is required for installation.

Edit: After doing the install without Internet, I do remember that they were trying to get me to create MS account. However I have not created one. It is possible that they give up after some time or maybe I found some way of disabling this.

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