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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#331

Post by justinph »

easterncalculus wrote: post #207

One example for sure is the endless CAPTCHAs you receive on virtually any large website when you attempt to connect from TOR. Each time you solve one it takes forever just to complain about how you spending several minutes selecting every 'light' suddenly isn't good enough to prove your humanity. You're not "checking if I'm human" 60 times in a row, you're blocking me for not wanting to be tracked on your website.

Can happen with non-TOR, too. Cloudflare is a cancer on the web for this kind of awfulness.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#332

Post by ExtraE »

yawnxyz wrote: post #282

I hate it when Linkedin or Lunchclub does a "connect your friends!" and you accidentally click a button and it literally launches spam invites for your entire address book. Worst part is that NO ONE has ever called them out for such a dark pattern, but the pattern forces ppl to send unsolicited emails to their contacts AND pretends it's meant to be sent by the person. Incredibly devious

Linked in also makes you create an account to view more than one profile/month. Facebook might also, but I never use facebook so I’m not sure.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#333

Post by zepto »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #299
zepto wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that all apps that can’t also be used via the web are a ‘dark pattern’? I ask because I can easily imagine that if most customers are using apps, they might choose to remove functionality from the website rather than maintain it, just because it’s not worth it.

If it's something that makes more sense as a website, then yes. I would go so far as to say any app that doesn't work offline is likely a dark pattern

How is this a dark pattern? It really just seems like a design disagreement.

If we’re going to call any design we don’t like a ‘dark pattern’, then the term becomes meaningless.

I mean to many people here commercial software is all a ‘dark pattern’ because they prefer FOSS.

But this isn’t what ‘dark patterns’ means.

Generally it’s about tricking people into agreeing to things based on false beliefs, or making things hard to cancel.

I don’t see how it has anything at all with what features are placed in what products as long as there is no deception.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#334

Post by ericwood »

lima wrote: post #215
wolpoli wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One major benefit of native app over web app is their ability to send notifications to get the user's attention.

Web apps can send notifications just fine, even in the background.

This is not the case on iOS: https://caniuse.com/notifications

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#335

Post by magnetowasright »

easterncalculus wrote: post #207

One example for sure is the endless CAPTCHAs you receive on virtually any large website when you attempt to connect from TOR. Each time you solve one it takes forever just to complain about how you spending several minutes selecting every 'light' suddenly isn't good enough to prove your humanity. You're not "checking if I'm human" 60 times in a row, you're blocking me for not wanting to be tracked on your website.

I experience this using Firefox temporary container extension, some other privacy extensions/settings, and a pihole. The worst bit is when it refuses to let you use an audio captcha; I can’t believe they’re allowed to take away accessibility on a whim. Not that it really makes much difference to the website but I’ll usually give up and maybe send them an email if I care enough to let them know that it’s not accessible.

The captcha where you slide the puzzle piece into place I’ve found is a much better user experience and presumably achieves the same goals (minus helping train image recognition). It’s a little bit ugly/looks like one of those spam interactive banner ads but I wish more sites used it anyway if they need protection.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#336

Post by MereInterest »

steve-benjamins wrote: post #296

Web.com charges 13 months in a year. They bill months in 4 week intervals— so a month = 28 days which = 13 months per year. This is all in their fine print. Screenshot: https://twitter.com/stevebenjamins/status/138531992456700313...

Ooh, your twitter link reminded me of a twitter dark pattern. Twitter makes a distinction between a visitor who has never had an account, and a visitor who had an account but is currently logged out. I made an account in order to test their API, then logged out. From then until when I cleared cookies from twitter, every publicly visible post was denied access, prompting me to log in to view them.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#337

Post by kevinventullo »

thiht wrote: post #297
chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #8

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Doesn't Apple do the same with Safari? On macOS I think Safari opens up sometimes even though my default browser is Firefox. Maybe when clicking links in Apple Mails? Not sure. It's funny how Apple gets away when doing the same thing or worse than Windows, yet Windows is always the one getting criticism. Like how Apple always try to enable Siri after an update. Or how managing when an update should be done is incredi…

Apple is actually worse. On iOS I will regularly click a link within an app, explicitly select “Open in Chrome” from the list of options, and it opens in Safari. Never seen anything that egregious from Microsoft.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#338

Post by Xavdidtheshadow »

bogwog wrote: post #267
fpig wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is good about web sites trying to force users to use their app instead? That itself one of the worst dark patterns out there. Edit: If my comment looks confusing, the comment I replied to has been edited. "compelling first class experience" is really a more vague term for "web sites being able to push their app on users"

> What is good about web sites trying to force users to use their app instead? If you're asking from the point of view of the social media site, the "good" thing is that a native app can steal much more personal information than a website.

Also (at least on iOS), content blockers don't work in the in-app browsers that FB uses. It's coded differently than a SafariWebView (which _does_ get the content blockers). Being an ad company, it makes sense that they don't want users doing that.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#339

Post by dnw »

yawnxyz wrote: post #282

I hate it when Linkedin or Lunchclub does a "connect your friends!" and you accidentally click a button and it literally launches spam invites for your entire address book. Worst part is that NO ONE has ever called them out for such a dark pattern, but the pattern forces ppl to send unsolicited emails to their contacts AND pretends it's meant to be sent by the person. Incredibly devious

Signal did this when I signed up and gave access to contacts. I usually don’t give access to contacts but this is Signal!

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#340

Post by celeritascelery »

swiley wrote: post #310
Mixtape wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

I'm so thankful for the Reddit redesign, I had a serious problem spending way too much time on that site. Now it's almost completely unusable.

Same here! I deleted the app and use the web app because it so much more painful so I don’t spend near the time on it.
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