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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#161
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun to imagine the implications of dramatically raising the standard for commercial speech, such that statements which intend to mislead are prohibited.

I worked at a large online retailer in NL that got told they needed to change their delivery promise because that’s not a promise you can actually keep. So it does happen, but probably not often enough.

Which online retailer was that? Happen to have a news item to link to?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#162
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this falls a little below the level of what should be a federal crime. It's an annoying usability issue, but ultimately which devices are supported is up to individual developers and not Apple. (It cuts both ways: there are some apps that aren't updated to run on the newest devices. So you could take that as Apple encouraging you to keep your old device and to NOT upgrade.) Think about it this way: you want t…

>So you could take that as Apple encouraging you to keep your old device and to NOT upgrade. Does Apple show you apps that won't run on the newest devices/OS versions in the app store? >It's an annoying usability issue, but ultimately which devices are supported is up to individual developers and not Apple. But Apple runs the store, so the onus on them is to present the store in a way that gives me what is compatible…

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#163
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun to imagine the implications of dramatically raising the standard for commercial speech, such that statements which intend to mislead are prohibited.

I worked at a large online retailer in NL that got told they needed to change their delivery promise because that’s not a promise you can actually keep. So it does happen, but probably not often enough.

I’m glad to hear that! It also lines up with my anecdotal experience overseeing a marketing department that Benelux, German, and Japanese teams were on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to American, Israeli, and Chinese teams with respect to “marketing bullshit” practices.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#164
post #108

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Apple does this as well on iOS where certain stock apps like Books always open links in Safari even when you have a different default browser set.

Not an iOS developer but I wonder if using the default browser requires using a different intent than the former behavior of "always open safari" did. Books, to me, seems like one of the more neglected first-party apps so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if this is just something that's sitting in the P4 column.

Only reason I assume this is all the Google apps on my phone bring up a sheet when I tap a link asking which browser I want to use-- with "system default" being one of the options.

Really there's no excuse for this, it can't be too difficult to adapt system apps to fall in line with the expectations for third-party apps.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.

I don't think that's accurate today. I recently cancelled my NYT subscription from their website, didn't even need to call them. How long ago was your experience?

I ran into this myself 18 months ago. I had subscribed years ago online, but was unable to cancel online.

I informed the person who canceled my subscription over the phone that I'd never consider doing business with them again, unless they fixed the problem.

I hope it's fixed now! That'd be a great improvement

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#168
post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

I found that a lot of those have commonly named elements you can create rules for in noscript so you never see them. Not sure if it would effect the dark pattern ones though.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#169
post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Can you explain why this is a dark pattern? How does slack benefit from you using the native app vs. the web app?

I mean I personally keep Slack on my Dock since it's open pretty frequently. This integrates it even more into my workflow since I can quickly check and see if I have any unreads/etc. making it more grating to switch to another chat app. Maybe it's not a "dark pattern" but it certainly is a method to increase adoption.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#170
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 10yrs ago NBA did this to me. They made it impossible to cancel a $99/m sub. Their instructions were login and go to the cancel button but the cancel button was broken and said call this number. But no one ever picked up the number. I will never buy a NBA branded thing after that obvious bullshit scam.

New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.

Paying for news in 2021 is a lot like paying for porn in 2021. Who does that.
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