Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 825 posts

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#291

Post by simion314 »

Jcowell wrote: post #274
solarkraft wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Next will probably give to EU guys a convoluted way to unlock you phone This is the end game. Jailbreaking should be a supported feature. What they'll actually do is most likely expanding features for side-loading with enterprise certificates, improving solutions like Alt Store.

I disagree with supported. I think jailbreaking is in good place right now. No company should be force to fix phones that we cause harm to due to breaking into, but companies should also not be allowed to claim that that alone is the reason a product is broken without evidence. I can’t imagine being forced to support a misuse of a product I develop outside of the scope Of it’s advertised intentions if it directly lea…

Mobile carriers were locking their devices and even if you owned the phone you had to pay some guy to unlock it for you to use it with other carriers(or buy a new phone). Unlocking the device was just a software thing, no risk to cause problems . Companies were forced to give you the code to unlock the device(if you own it) and now the devices are already unlocked(not sure if is a law or companies realized that it was a stupid idea to lock stuff by default if I buy it and then have to implement an unlock customer support line . And it makes sense, you just hate the company more if you feel they are malicious and lock you.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#292

Post by norswap »

adriancooney wrote: post #240
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

Is it fair to call Apple's platform rent-seeking? I think a 30% cut is certainly far too much but I wouldn't call it rent-seeking. The platform itself provides a lot of value and they are entitled to charge something for it.

One might argue they already capture the value in the phone's price. Their hardware might be good, but if they switched to android overnight, iPhone sales would plummet.

It's clear many companies think the 30% cut is too high, but giving up on Apple means giving up on 45% of the highly-lucrative US market.

This means Apple is able to use its dominant position to squeeze the margin of other companies via the too-high 30% fee. A clear monopolistic practice.

As for the value-add (since rent-seeking is about charging without value-add) — it's smaller than you think. Contrast with Android, where you can at least install the app without going through the official App store. Apple's is simply charging for gatekeeping the access to its market (Google would like to do this too but historically hasn't bee in a position to do it as effectively).

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#293

Post by perryizgr8 »

tgv wrote: post #261
Mindwipe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hopeful Apple might be forced to divest the App Store into a separate company entirely tbh.

That's my nightmare scenario. I fear it'll be the end of the mac as we know it. What upside do you see?

What has the app store got with Mac laptops? And why would splitting into a different company end the laptops?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#294

Post by gcthomas »

jVinc wrote: post #249
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

> Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! This seems to be the case for all markets. I don't really see myself winning a case against wallmart if I complain they want a markup on sales of my product and that they are misusing their "monopoly" on "wallmart shelf space" by not allowing me decide to put my products in their store without their…

Walmart is competing openly with the store down the street. If I have a iPhone I can't use another store — it is a lock-in.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#295

Post by kwyjobojoe »

simion314 wrote: post #175
cletus wrote: post #145

So Apple's ecosystem does two things: 1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and 2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure. I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all o…

Dude you can buy same game Cyberpunk on at least 3 different stores, what is wrong in the fact you have a choice? Sure you have some bad examples with some of EA games or other exclusives but only a retard would say "I wish only Steam existed because I love Valve screwing me so everyone should learn to love it") I don't blame Epic or EA either, why should they pay Valve a 30% tax when they can build a store and not t…

Choice is bad because Apple consumers prefer to be forced to only do things the Apple way (like when you couldn't transfer a file via Bluetooth between an ipad and iPhone because at the time Apple wanted you to use a computer, yet it worked fine transferring to an Android phone. Took me a while to figure that one out)

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#296

Post by perryizgr8 »

saurik wrote: post #230
endisneigh wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why people say it’s a general computing device. It’s clearly not nor has it been advertised as such. If it actually was a general computing device you could just install an entirely different operating system onto it. If Apple allowed users to install Android on iPhones but didn’t change iOS would that be an acceptable solution? If so, what’s stopping someone from just getting an Android device now…

Most Android devices--and certainly all the good ones--are almost as locked down as iOS: Android has a bit more extensibility points, and sideloading has fewer restrictions, but it isn't like an Android device is some open "run anything you want" playing field (hell: the original Android G1 needed a jailbreak!!); and, really, if you analyze that market carefully, Samsung pretty much owns it with like 95% of the profi…

That's why Google and Samsung need to be sued in a similar fashion, too.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#297

Post by kwyjobojoe »

finiteseries wrote: post #117
speedgoose wrote: post #11

I wish one of the outcome would be to allow better web browsers than Safari on iOS.

Web ( Chrome ) developers often go on and on about this, but I have yet to hear a single layman user complain about their iOS version of Chrome missing the ability to have the random news websites they’ve followed from Facebook send them native notifications, take up the entire viewport, or be “installed” to their home screen.

I'd pay money to use real Firefox on my ipad and have access to a good ad blocker

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#298

Post by simion314 »

endisneigh wrote: post #260
simion314 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense for Apple but not for the Apple users, users pay more so users lose and Apple wins, this shit does not fly in other countries. For example for currency exchanges we had laws(in Romania) that you have to print in giant fonts all the fees/taxes. The law was created because the giant text was showing some values and the fees were hidden or printed in small fonts somewhere unreadable. IMO aa country coul…

If Apple users were harmed by this they would change platforms, no? Apple didn't always have phones, nor were they always a big presence in computing. Presumably they're doing something right, which is why people are buying their stuff.

Can you move your apps,movies, contacts from iOS ?

Can someone kept in the dark by App Store rules even know that he is screwed by Apple?

If Apple is harmed by this can chose not to sell in EU.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#299

Post by kwyjobojoe »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #264

So, the EU will make a big fuss, lump Apple with a huge fine, which in the grand scheme of things amounts to a slap on the wrist, and then what? Apple will be forced to lower their fees, but i'm sure they'll come up with another creative way to fleece off app store vendors. Sigh. I wonder if they're not already selling information to Facebook after releasing ios 14.5...

Force Apple to allow other billing systems?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#300

Post by simion314 »

endisneigh wrote: post #280
simion314 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a percentage of businesses be relevant? If I want to deliver food can I ask my customers to use a Linux PC because I only have a Linux app? Can you tell your customers that your website only works on Safari? As a company you have to implement what the customers want, not what you want. Apple controlling the market means you have to (even if you are not forced by a law of nature) make sure your webiste work…

> If I want to deliver food can I ask my customers to use a Linux PC because I only have a Linux app? Can you tell your customers that your website only works on Safari? Sure why not? Businesses don’t have to do anything. They can and do support things arbitrarily and customers choose which business to engage with based off those decisions. Apple and Google are following the same rules. Hopefully those rules change,…

>Sure why not

Are you trolling? or do not understand business?

Post reply on HN