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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#221

Post by xorcist »

f6v wrote: post #81
thayne wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think the key here, and probably a big reason Spotify went after Apple and not Google, is that on iOS you have to use Apple's app store. You can't distribute your app using your own infrastructure, or an alternative app store even if you want to.

You also don’t have to buy a subscription in the app, do you? You can pay on the web directly to Spotify and use the subscription in the app.

Apple has blacklisted apps for allowing that. They're a bit selective in enforcing that rule, but that doesn't make the situation better.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#222

Post by f6v »

simion314 wrote: post #163
f6v wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People pretend that for-profit entities are supposed to build platform as a public good. When in fact corporations are incentivized by the market to be a monopoly.

You should not be allowed to build a platform and then compete unfair with apps for that platform.

Why build a platform then?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#223

Post by ClumsyPilot »

slver wrote: post #188
falcor84 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is with 'internally'. As I understand it, the antitrust regulations could force Apple to spin Apple Music out.

Let's take a step and ponder wouldn't you find it bizarre to have this sequence of events: 1. Apple creates iPod, and iTunes serves as its music store. 2. Apple creates iPhone, which has an iPod app. 3. Apple introduces App Store so other apps can be used on the iPhone. 4. iPod (Apple Music) competitors emerge. 5. EU says "that's it, Apple can't have iPod anymore on the phone unless iPod (Apple Music) becomes a separ…

Apple didn't invent music players, nor appstores, nor smartphones, nor digital music or music streaming. The entire argument is a red herring.

But even if we take this absurd argument at face value, it's still wrong: third party applications add value to iPhone and make them worth bying. If you could not install games, bank app, etc. On an iphone, iPhones would be useless and noone would buy them in the face of competition. The whole reason Windoes Phone died is that there were no apps. iPhone would simply follow

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#224

Post by friendzis »

slver wrote: post #188
falcor84 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is with 'internally'. As I understand it, the antitrust regulations could force Apple to spin Apple Music out.

Let's take a step and ponder wouldn't you find it bizarre to have this sequence of events: 1. Apple creates iPod, and iTunes serves as its music store. 2. Apple creates iPhone, which has an iPod app. 3. Apple introduces App Store so other apps can be used on the iPhone. 4. iPod (Apple Music) competitors emerge. 5. EU says "that's it, Apple can't have iPod anymore on the phone unless iPod (Apple Music) becomes a separ…

> In effect the EU penalizes the creation of market places

Nope. EU only forces you to compete in the marketplace on the same terms regardless of who owns the marketplace or the product.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#225

Post by simion314 »

jamesrr39 wrote: post #124
simion314 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not all of HN, and people from outside US are not that anti-regulation, anti-socialism like US citizens. But this is EU rule, so if you are from US it won't apply to you anyway.

maybe, who knows. GDPR for example got more companies making "download my data" options, even for users outside the EU.

Nice of those companies that offered you the option, though I expect that they track you if you are from US with all those 100+ partners and not even inform you.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#226

Post by kryptiskt »

acta_non_verba wrote: post #213
kryptiskt wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Apple benefiting from selling in the EU? If they want to benefit from Europe, they got to obey the rules.

Side note: Please stop using EU and Europe interchangeably, they are not the same thing. 100s of millions of people live on the continent of Europe, but not in the EU.

I'll do that when US people stop using America and Americans to describe themselves.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#227

Post by frereubu »

breakfastduck wrote: post #196
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

I'm not sure that's relevant is it?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#228

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

endisneigh wrote: post #199
isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if the electricity provider required 30% cut for any TV I hook up except for the one they sell, I would like them to be stopped.

That’s not really the analogous situation. More like Samsung takes a 30% cut on apps on its Tizen platform. Surely you’d just change TVs no? Or not buy it to begin with?

If only Samsung and Sony were making these TVs, and they both had these platforms, I'm screwed anyway, am I not?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#229

Post by villasv »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #139
slver wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

In theory and superficially that makes sense, but they are the same company so it wouldn't make a difference in the end. It's not like Spotify can pay itself that 30%.

> it wouldn't make a difference in the end

Yes it would.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#230

Post by saurik »

endisneigh wrote: post #126
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is it being a mandatory offering, as opposed to alternative stores. And it's designed to make a profit, not to secure iOS in any meaningful way. (For instance, the requirement on IAPs, despite them not requiring additional software distribution services or app review costs for Apple.) If Apple wants to secure or curate their platform, fine, but it's now a general computing device, and alternative platforms…

I don’t understand why people say it’s a general computing device. It’s clearly not nor has it been advertised as such. If it actually was a general computing device you could just install an entirely different operating system onto it. If Apple allowed users to install Android on iPhones but didn’t change iOS would that be an acceptable solution? If so, what’s stopping someone from just getting an Android device now…

Most Android devices--and certainly all the good ones--are almost as locked down as iOS: Android has a bit more extensibility points, and sideloading has fewer restrictions, but it isn't like an Android device is some open "run anything you want" playing field (hell: the original Android G1 needed a jailbreak!!); and, really, if you analyze that market carefully, Samsung pretty much owns it with like 95% of the profit made across all vendors (and they have extra locked down devices).
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