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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#201
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is with 'internally'. As I understand it, the antitrust regulations could force Apple to spin Apple Music out.

Let's take a step and ponder wouldn't you find it bizarre to have this sequence of events: 1. Apple creates iPod, and iTunes serves as its music store. 2. Apple creates iPhone, which has an iPod app. 3. Apple introduces App Store so other apps can be used on the iPhone. 4. iPod (Apple Music) competitors emerge. 5. EU says "that's it, Apple can't have iPod anymore on the phone unless iPod (Apple Music) becomes a separ…

> No one (successfully) sued Apple for anti-competitive practices on iPod

Because they never had the market share and power in the music market that they have now on the mobile market that's why. You kind of answered why they are getting sued now yourself.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#202
Another reason I wish iOS devices, and some other computing devices, were not so locked down: preserving our environment and resources.

The hand-wavy argument is, perhaps these business models are legal, but I don't feel our social and environmental progress is at a point where we can afford to have companies create "disposable" devices - "disposable" in the "long-term" of course, I understand iOS devices for example are supported quite well compared to average. And there is the problem for me, I don't believe "better than average" should be a valid defense for this practice. Yes, companies are entitled to end support of their software, leaving vulnerabilities in browsers or the OS, but on a locked down device, that can drastically alter its usefulness and its lifetime. Allowing customers who bought a device to repurpose it by installing their software of choice should be a possibility. A quick aside, I (sort of) get Apple's 7-day limit on side-loading iOS apps with a free Apple developer account, but my gosh does that feel petty and creates a sad barrier for creating fun little apps for a small group of friends.

And this issue has some subtlety I think. More than my (naive?) arguments capture I'm sure. One aspect is I don't know if these ideas would preclude the security model on iOS, which I very much enjoy, to be fair. I understand security, flexibility and a great user experience can be hard to integrate together, especially in an intuitive matter, but I wish Apple - and others - would try to find other creative solutions to some of these problems and trade-offs.

Another aspect is where to draw the "general computing device" line which would compel a manufacturer to have, somehow, a "long-term open device". Perhaps this would backfire and Apple would start trying to make a "non-general" computing device to avoid this sort of rule. I just wish we could have it all of course: a great security model, ease of use but the flexibility to use hardware as we wish 10 years down the line. Hopefully people working at all these companies want this too, and I can keep dreaming.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#203

HN when government does something they like about tech: This was a no-brainer. HN when government does something they dislike about tech: Tech is too complex for government to understand.

Apparently it's impossible to hold a nuanced position.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this 30%-15% only for Spotify subscribers that paid through Apple Pay or is this for all Spotify subscribers that use the iOS app?

If you sign up for Spotify outside of the app then Apple sees 0 of that revenue. And yet they are then also hosting and distributing apps for these companies. I think they’ll probably start charging companies like Spotify a banana amount of money to be on the App Store or on iOS at all if they lose these legal battles. I think the pull of the iPhone is far stronger than any app and there are many developers waiting f…

Hah, I’d rather just host my own infrastructure if they’ll start charging for hosting… oh wait…

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why people say it’s a general computing device. It’s clearly not nor has it been advertised as such. If it actually was a general computing device you could just install an entirely different operating system onto it. If Apple allowed users to install Android on iPhones but didn’t change iOS would that be an acceptable solution? If so, what’s stopping someone from just getting an Android device now…

That's the whole issue - it is a general purpose computing device but Apple is trying to prevent users from using it as such for their selfish reasons. Not only is that anticompetitive, it's also dangerous (state actors can and do apply pressure on them to censor dissenting apps as Apple is the the single gatekeeper) and wasteful (you can't easily repurchase older unsupported devices due to the artificial limits inse…

A device having the capacity in raw computing power to be a general purpose computing device does not make it one. Nor does you wanting it to beone.

I'm growing really frustrated with the attempts to force Apple via law to turn my 0 maintenance iPhone into another computer I've got to bloody manage.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#206
post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

narrator voice: they all used apple infrastructure.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the situation is better on Android, not using the Play Store isn't a real option in most cases. Alternative stores cannot provide auto updates.

The bigger difference is that the play store does not mandate using Google as the payment processor for transactions and subscriptions. Spotify would have no reason to look for an alternative app distribution mechanism on Android.

> The bigger difference is that the play store does not mandate using Google as the payment processor for transactions and subscriptions.

The rules have changed, they do now.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. This market is a duopoly so there is limited opportunity to vote with your wallet. B. Neither is not really a choice for most people. C. It is one thing if Apple wants to charge a percentage of revenue to use their app store. But they have made it against the rules to: allow side loading, allow alternative app stores, link to a web payment option in one of their apps, and even to mention that they charge 30% of th…

> A. This market is a duopoly so there is limited opportunity to vote with your wallet. This was not always the case. What’s stopping a competitor from defeating both Apple and Google? Windows Mobile had a peak market share of about 42%, higher than what Apple has in the EU. My response to B is the same to A. Regarding C what is an acceptable percentage - how did you come up with that number? Apple has been pretty tr…

42%? Was that on some random small market?

Globally it peaked at 4%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste...

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#209
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that. Apple isn't a deity.

This is so utterly bonkers.

You're essentially saying if a crisp manufacturer wanted to sell in Asda, but Asda didn't want to sell them, Asda could be slapped with enforcement action for not selling the crisps?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#210

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

What percentage is acceptable to you? Perhaps all percentage based transactions are rent seeking and should be made illegal. I’m on board.

That has a simple answer: What banks / credit card companies take. Banks have to run infrastructure to transfer money and App Store have to run infrastructure for certain services like distribution, quality filtering, etc.

Why is it simple: Banks have settled this over (maybe) 100 years and have a (idealistically seen) competitive environment.

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