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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#161

Post by georgyo »

anoncake wrote: post #98
thayne wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think the key here, and probably a big reason Spotify went after Apple and not Google, is that on iOS you have to use Apple's app store. You can't distribute your app using your own infrastructure, or an alternative app store even if you want to.

While the situation is better on Android, not using the Play Store isn't a real option in most cases. Alternative stores cannot provide auto updates.

The bigger difference is that the play store does not mandate using Google as the payment processor for transactions and subscriptions. Spotify would have no reason to look for an alternative app distribution mechanism on Android.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#162

Post by ericmay »

megatron4537 wrote: post #136
simonh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 30% for the first year of subscriptions and 15% thereafter. According to Apple in 2019 Spotify didn't actually pay 30% on any of it's subscriptions at that time, and only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users. The rest are ad supported and Apple gets 0% of the ad revenue. So for every Spotify app user Apple get's a 15% fee for, there are 199 Spotify app users Apple is distributing the App to for which they get…

Is this 30%-15% only for Spotify subscribers that paid through Apple Pay or is this for all Spotify subscribers that use the iOS app?

If you sign up for Spotify outside of the app then Apple sees 0 of that revenue. And yet they are then also hosting and distributing apps for these companies.

I think they’ll probably start charging companies like Spotify a banana amount of money to be on the App Store or on iOS at all if they lose these legal battles. I think the pull of the iPhone is far stronger than any app and there are many developers waiting for their chance to reach the iOS audience.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#163

Post by simion314 »

f6v wrote: post #102
bennysomething wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is apple entitled to 30 percent of what any other business makes? Apple developed a platform and says to developers "pay is 30 percent to use it" sounds fair to me. Huge streaming service comes along "I want to use you platform but not pay the fee". How is that remotely fair? No one is making Spotify use it. What right has any one or any company got to demand special treatment. Many other app developers are fine…

People pretend that for-profit entities are supposed to build platform as a public good. When in fact corporations are incentivized by the market to be a monopoly.

You should not be allowed to build a platform and then compete unfair with apps for that platform.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#164

Post by endisneigh »

swongel wrote: post #137
endisneigh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

So Apple is forcing its customers to bundle their phone with their billing platform. Which should be illegal (as we democratically decided to have these laws), having no choice in services is not a feature it's an additional price to pay for the product and customers legally didn't agree to that simply by buying a commodity phone (no contract, no consideration whatsoever for this additional price). > People should ju…

I’m curious - In the EU are businesses required by law to accept whatever form of payment the customer would like to use? Are vendors required?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#165

Post by simonh »

simion314 wrote: post #122
simonh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I understand that, but personally as an iPhone user I don't care. Users benefit from consolidation in the app store space, it much easier for me to have all my apps come from one app store with one set of rules and policies. I benefit from the fact Facebook can't bypass the App Store rules for security and privacy through side loading and an alternate store. Why do you want to take that away from me? Also as a u…

So if you personally won't benefit from it you should not be against someone else benefiting right? If you want to buy Cyberpunk 2077 you have the option of at least 3 stores, I did not see any Steam user getting damaged by the fact the game is on other stores too.

Is the App Store really an obstacle to apps getting on the iOS platform? Is it artificially raising prices? That's what matters from a consumer interests perspective, are they losing out or are they getting ripped off. If the answer is no, there's no case to answer. The reason for companies to exist and develop and sell products isn't to benefit their competitors.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#166

Post by saynay »

zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

I believe it is 30% for the initial subscription (or maybe first year?), and then 15% after that. If you are big enough, and probably aren't competing with a market Apple wants, you can negotiate to the 15% (maybe lower?) from the get go, e.g. Netflix.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#167

Post by simonh »

ericmay wrote: post #159
simion314 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you personally won't benefit from it you should not be against someone else benefiting right? If you want to buy Cyberpunk 2077 you have the option of at least 3 stores, I did not see any Steam user getting damaged by the fact the game is on other stores too.

As the topic has been beat to death a million times, the danger is that adding additional app stores will result in decreases in the exact thing the OP likes the App Store for. All of the hard work fighting for privacy, security, etc., goes out the window. Facebook will put their app on a 3rd party store and now we’re back to them and others abusing privacy and tracking users and not sharing what and how they’re trac…

Exactly, I like the fact that if Facebook want to be on my phone they have to meet Apple's security and privacy standards. That directly benefits me, and it's one of the reasons I buy iPhones. Forcing Apple to change their product to allow side loading and alternative stores takes that away from me.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#168

Post by mrep »

slver wrote: post #132
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

With that accounting methodology, between the 30% apple store cut and the 70% music publishers cut, Apple music is left with no revenue whatsoever to fund their service, therefore running it at a 100% loss and thus price dumping which is also illegal.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#170

Post by dopidopHN »

slver wrote: post #132
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

Oh I’m sure they bill their branch in Ireland for this. In order to make sure to avoid any tax they own us.
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